Author Topic: Winter Anime 2009/2010  (Read 8551 times)

Offline Waffo

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 11:29:22 AM »
I hate to throw around the all-too common phrase of "support the industry" but those elitist fans really need to buy at least some stuff.  How can they resist the urge to have their favorite shows in physical form, sitting in their hands?  Something that the creators were fine with bringing to America?  Besides, fansubs can't get you everything.  Limited edition figures, artbooks and soundtracks that sometimes come with special edition dvds?  As an odd example, the only way I could find to read Alien Nine was to buy the dvd, because they came with it.  It's otherwise impossible to find, apparently. 


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Offline Steven

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 02:43:14 PM »
meh, there just trying to take our money

Are you referring to Crunchyroll, or English companies? 

If it's the former, I agree.  If it's the latter, then I fear I have to enter sarcasm mode!

Quote
I hate to throw around the all-too common phrase of "support the industry" but those elitist fans really need to buy at least some stuff.  How can they resist the urge to have their favorite shows in physical form, sitting in their hands?  Something that the creators were fine with bringing to America?  Besides, fansubs can't get you everything.  Limited edition figures, artbooks and soundtracks that sometimes come with special edition dvds?  As an odd example, the only way I could find to read Alien Nine was to buy the dvd, because they came with it.  It's otherwise impossible to find, apparently.

They'll keep doing it because it not only lets them be elitist, but self-satisfying and greedy as well.

If they thought about the way the anime industry, or industry as a whole works, they'd be faced with the moral dillema that watching pirated streams of the shows they claim to "love" is counter-productive, and insidious to the continued performance of said show.

So, what do they do?  Start with rationalizing it!  Hmm... oh!  I know!  Watching nothing but fansubs is just the same as what the japanese do when they watch it on TV!  They get to watch it for free!  So should we!

My favorite argument ever.  ^^  So flawed and childish, and completely misses the point of commercials and the revenue they generate for broadcast companies, who in turn buy series to fill their time slots.  Still, since most of the elitist fans who use this argument are teenagers, and teenagers are ignorant of so much more than they think, I suppose I don't fault them for trying to compare apples to oranges here.

Now you have a self-gratifying rationale!  It's time to kick it up a notch!  Now that you've convinced yourself that watching fansubs and never buying merchandise or DVDs isn't bad.... how can you move to the next logical step:   Convincing yourself that doing so makes you BETTER than people who don't?

The answer?  Time to vilify the english companies!  Boo to them!  Damn their eeeeeevil dubs that they create for the sole purpose of making anime unbearable!  All they care about is money!  All those eeeevil thousands of dollars that untrue fans pay them, because EVERYONE knows that anime is a money-market, because there's just SOOOOOOO much demand for it here in America that all kinds of evil greedy corporations are trying to use it to make a profit.

Oh, and fansub translations are ALWAYS more accurate!  official translations are done by evil companies, which makes them untrustworthy!  Fansubbers, who do it because they love anime, are the ONLY trustworthy source, even when they completely bastardize obviously western names.   Obviously, a hastily-produced translation done by an amateur who may or may not be fluent in English, and was then thrown out as quickly as possible will always be more reliable than a finished product made by college-certified translators.


...so yeah.  No amount of arguing can ever dissuade this type of anime fan, because they've put so many layers of self-centered delusion into their way of thinking that nothing can untwine it.  it's like Gordion's knot.  The only solace you can take is the fact that they WILL  eventually grow up, realize that their selfish desires aren't the center of the universe, that trying to make money for creating art, or helping to distribute it isn't the root of all evil, and that they were very, VERY foolish when they were younger.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 02:58:45 PM by Steven »

Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 11:27:28 PM »
There's something American companies are missing that Japanese companies have gotten down pat because of many years of practice and thats commercialism sponsorships.

Let me elobrate:

When you watch a fansub or such, if the group doesn't edit it out, usually right after the intro music you get a short 5 to 10 seconds scene that usually has a man or woman annoucing sponsors of the anime. Now what we don't see is the benefits that the companies who sponsor anime get because obviously we don't see the commercials, only those who live in Japan and watch it straight from its source on the TV station is was aired on.

These Japanese companies who sponsor the brodcasting of the anime, get in return, advertisement for whatever product or service they provide. I remember seeing some McDonald's sponsorships before.

This is where American companies and the anime industry in the U.S. fail in comparison. They fail to get any sort of endorsement or sponsorship from these rich companies to brodcast these animes on T.V. I would bet every dime to my name that companies like Microsoft or McDonalds or hell even Disney would love to get their hands on more commercial slots for their products if given the oppurtunity.

Now you wonder how that benefits the anime industry? That means less money the industry has to fork out from their revenue from the sales of the DVDs to brodcast anime on T.V. and that means more money saved to license more good series. That also means more money for production companies like Viz or Funimation or Section23 to hire more and better voice actors and actresses, screenplay writers, etc to create better english versions of the anime.

The Anime industry has failed to comprehend other means of revenue aside from sales which is whats slowly killing the industry.

Fansubs aren't necessarily killing the industry because I know quite a number of people who watch fansubs but go out and buy the anime or manga they enjoyed reading or watchin. Now that doesn't mean I quite agree with the fansub industry, it just means that the industry needs to wake up more to other methods.

Also if the anime industry actually hired on these fansubs to do legal releases of the anime (to be honest quite a number of groups are more than qualified to do speed subs with decent translations), then that would work better towards the industry in decreasing the number of fansub groups out there that could potentially hurt the copyright label.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 11:29:07 PM by Aoshi101 »

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Offline Steven

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2009, 01:11:44 AM »


This is where American companies and the anime industry in the U.S. fail in comparison. They fail to get any sort of endorsement or sponsorship from these rich companies to brodcast these animes on T.V. I would bet every dime to my name that companies like Microsoft or McDonalds or hell even Disney would love to get their hands on more commercial slots for their products if given the oppurtunity.


well, actually, sponsors choose the shows, not the other way around.  Sponsors choose which shows they buy airtime for based on the numbers the show scores in their target demographic, since that means knowledge of their product is reaching as many potential buyers as possible. 

As I mentioned above,  Ratings determine commercial revenue,  and commercial revenue determines how much money is spent producing new shows of the same type. 

It's not that anime companies AREN'T trying to get sponsorship from Microsoft or McDonalds.  It's that they CAN'T.  Anime doesn't pull the numbers necessary to attract primary Ad revenue.  The audience for anime just isn't big enough in America now that the anime craze that started with Pokemon, DBZ, and Gundam Wing, and peaked with Cowboy Bebop, ended.

Quote
Now you wonder how that benefits the anime industry? That means less money the industry has to fork out from their revenue from the sales of the DVDs to brodcast anime on T.V. and that means more money saved to license more good series.

As long as no one overestimates the audience a show can generate, the acquisition of an anime license can usually pay for itself when the merchandise and DVD sales are tallied, since they usually limit production to the number they anticipate selling to retailers.

Fewer anime titles are licensed as time goes by because there are fewer and fewer potential buyers here, sadly.  It's not about lacking the money to purchase licenses.  :(

Quote
That also means more money for production companies like Viz or Funimation or Section23 to hire more and better voice actors and actresses, screenplay writers, etc to create better english versions of the anime.

Not impossible, but unlikely.  The dubbing of foreign material is never an attractive market for actors, especially since the actors guild seldom endorses their projects.  Because of this, dubbing studios can hire only those actors who are willing to assume aliases in order to do non-union work, and since actors willing to betray the guild are few and far between, that's the biggest reason for the limited pool of anime actors.

Really, though, dub actors are getting better all the time, and most of them are phenomenal.  The anime fandom will never like dubs, no matter how exceptional they are, because they're biased toward the japanese audio.  There's nothing wrong with this.  It's personal preference.  Still, it's hardly necessary for anime companies to spend more money on "more talented" actors.  We could have the cut of Hollywood's finest voicing these characters, and the fans would still get online and bitch about how lousy they were.

Quote
The Anime industry has failed to comprehend other means of revenue aside from sales which is whats slowly killing the industry.

To the contrary.  The anime industry is sagging worse than most others, because it was starting to decline earlier, but really, the prominence of online streaming is slowly making all of television obsolete.   Companies streaming with ads covering the cost instead of the viewer is about the best they can do right now.

Quote
Fansubs aren't necessarily killing the industry because I know quite a number of people who watch fansubs but go out and buy the anime or manga they enjoyed reading or watchin.

You must have many noble friends.  It's a simple fact of human nature that if something can be obtained for free, then we won't want to pay for it.  While people who watch fansubs and then buy the DVDs do exist.  For every 1 person like there, there's likely 100 who don't.

But you're right.  Fansubs, in and of themselves, aren't killing the industry.  It's the elitist overtones of a spoiled and snobbish anime fandom that does it.

Quote
Now that doesn't mean I quite agree with the fansub industry, it just means that the industry needs to wake up more to other methods.

Which is precisely what they did.

Quote
Also if the anime industry actually hired on these fansubs to do legal releases of the anime (to be honest quite a number of groups are more than qualified to do speed subs with decent translations), then that would work better towards the industry in decreasing the number of fansub groups out there that could potentially hurt the copyright label.

There will always be another fansubbing circle to replace old ones.  A handful of fansubbers have been indoctrinated into official translations, but since the majority of them either lack full fluency in either English or Japanese, are based overseas, or don't have any formal training, they're undesirable by most standards.

Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 07:27:49 PM »
Ya know I was gonna reply to your post several weeks back, Steven. I even had this nice long post written out but my computer messed up right before I went to post it, got fed up and didn't want to rewrite everything so I left it be. I'll let you have this one for free  ;D

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Offline Waffo

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2009, 02:04:23 PM »
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Anways, I think I'll have to add Nodame Cantabile Finale onto my list of stuff to watch.  I recently marathoned all of the manga.


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Offline Steven

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 06:10:36 AM »
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Anways, I think I'll have to add Nodame Cantabile Finale onto my list of stuff to watch.  I recently marathoned all of the manga.

Nodame Cantabile is good stuff!  I was surprised by how much I liked it, not being of a musical persuasion.

Offline fightingmelee

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2009, 05:23:23 PM »



Are you referring to Crunchyroll, or English companies? 

If it's the former, I agree.  If it's the latter, then I fear I have to enter sarcasm mode!



Crunchy roll. I would hate to get sarcasm mode ><
There's something American companies are missing that Japanese companies have gotten down pat because of many years of practice and thats commercialism sponsorships.

Let me elobrate:

When you watch a fansub or such, if the group doesn't edit it out, usually right after the intro music you get a short 5 to 10 seconds scene that usually has a man or woman annoucing sponsors of the anime. Now what we don't see is the benefits that the companies who sponsor anime get because obviously we don't see the commercials, only those who live in Japan and watch it straight from its source on the TV station is was aired on.

These Japanese companies who sponsor the brodcasting of the anime, get in return, advertisement for whatever product or service they provide. I remember seeing some McDonald's sponsorships before.

This is where American companies and the anime industry in the U.S. fail in comparison. They fail to get any sort of endorsement or sponsorship from these rich companies to brodcast these animes on T.V. I would bet every dime to my name that companies like Microsoft or McDonalds or hell even Disney would love to get their hands on more commercial slots for their products if given the oppurtunity.

Now you wonder how that benefits the anime industry? That means less money the industry has to fork out from their revenue from the sales of the DVDs to brodcast anime on T.V. and that means more money saved to license more good series. That also means more money for production companies like Viz or Funimation or Section23 to hire more and better voice actors and actresses, screenplay writers, etc to create better english versions of the anime.

The Anime industry has failed to comprehend other means of revenue aside from sales which is whats slowly killing the industry.

Fansubs aren't necessarily killing the industry because I know quite a number of people who watch fansubs but go out and buy the anime or manga they enjoyed reading or watchin. Now that doesn't mean I quite agree with the fansub industry, it just means that the industry needs to wake up more to other methods.

Also if the anime industry actually hired on these fansubs to do legal releases of the anime (to be honest quite a number of groups are more than qualified to do speed subs with decent translations), then that would work better towards the industry in decreasing the number of fansub groups out there that could potentially hurt the copyright label.
*blinks* wow, I would have never seen this coming.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 05:24:08 PM by fightingmelee »

Offline Waffo

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 08:44:22 PM »
Steven: 1
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Anways, I think I'll have to add Nodame Cantabile Finale onto my list of stuff to watch.  I recently marathoned all of the manga.

Nodame Cantabile is good stuff!  I was surprised by how much I liked it, not being of a musical persuasion.

I guess it's bad that I read a music manga...  Shame on me. 


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Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2009, 06:29:30 AM »
Update to the chart. Version number 2 has arrived from Chartfag. Guess I have something to look forward to, in Tokimeki Memorial 4. I saw the original Tokimeki Memorial series so I wonder what connection this has towards it.

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Offline Waffo

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2009, 09:52:39 PM »
Ah, updated list.  Nice.

Fate/Stay Night TV reproduction?  What is that, a recap?
My friend's watching the Halo anime. 
Just got Denpa teki na Kanojo.  Don't really know why.  I guess I don't want to drop a short OVA... 
Utawarerumono OVA...  Hope it gets subbed.  Or gets on DVD or something.
And Hellsing Ultimate 7?  I really need to get caught up on that.  I loved volume 7 and didn't know they have made OVAs up to that point.  Last one I watched must've been like 4.


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Offline fightingmelee

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2009, 03:24:03 PM »
Ah, updated list.  Nice.

Fate/Stay Night TV reproduction?  What is that, a recap?
My friend's watching the Halo anime. 
Just got Denpa teki na Kanojo.  Don't really know why.  I guess I don't want to drop a short OVA... 
Utawarerumono OVA...  Hope it gets subbed.  Or gets on DVD or something.
And Hellsing Ultimate 7?  I really need to get caught up on that.  I loved volume 7 and didn't know they have made OVAs up to that point.  Last one I watched must've been like 4.
Did u just say...Halo?!

Offline Waffo

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2009, 01:18:58 PM »
Yeah the official way to watch it is through Halo Waypoint through XBox live (which is free) but justdubs.net has it as well.  The creators know that a lot of their fanbase like anime so they're catering to the fans.  She likes the first and third but the second has funky art. 


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Offline Steven

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2009, 06:08:21 AM »
I'm surprised by happy!  Given that so many online celebrities of the VG world openly hate anime and JRPGs, I was beginning to suspect that it was fashionable in the gamer world to hate on all things japanese.  I'm not a big fan of Halo, but I hope this venture works for them.

Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Winter Anime 2009/2010
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2009, 12:21:34 PM »
I saw a 30 second preview for Qwaser and be forwarned it looks like a smiliar form of Queens Blade, hentai in disguise as some call it. Its good boobage galore. I'm not talking censored either and it looks like there might be some actual sex scenes in it, who knows tho because a 30 second trailer can only show so much. I'm definitely not watching this series as I dislike series like these.

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