Poll

Were you surprised by the ending?

Yes
34 (63%)
No
20 (37%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*  (Read 22895 times)

Offline Grahf

  • Seeker of Power
  • Budding Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 578
  • Gender: Male
  • HNIC
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2005, 08:15:53 PM »
Quote
It obviously would, but Manaka wouldn't be any more special than any other person in terms of the influence people had on Toujo's writing.

I think you're wrong. Toujou's writing is affected by Manaka more than anything. But to me, Toujou never wrote to impress Manaka, that was just a plus. Instead, her writing was influenced by him. Her stories would have a different outcome if Toujou had never met Manaka.

It would have been different yes.  But to say that she wrote to impress him?? lol  What are you smoking?  She based the romance aspect on her P.O.V. of the whole triangle that was going on.

Hmm I do agree that the ending was abrupt shikoshi that doesn't mean that he didn't love Nishino the most. I think not only throughout the entire manga but the last ten chapters as well

Sorry for the extremely late reply but again you're missing the point.  I don't care who he loved more because that discussion could go on forever with no one claiming victory.  As I said in my early post the focus of the last couple of chapters wasn't the love between Nishino and Manaka ( that is debatable as I said).  It was friendship between Manaka and Aya.  So with a conclusion that shows Nishino and Manaka together after saying they wouldn't talk makes no sense. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 08:20:07 PM by Grahf »


G-thugin it up.

Offline catullus

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 11:38:56 PM »
Quote

Sorry for the extremely late reply but again you're missing the point.  I don't care who he loved more because that discussion could go on forever with no one claiming victory.  As I said in my early post the focus of the last couple of chapters wasn't the love between Nishino and Manaka ( that is debatable as I said).  It was friendship between Manaka and Aya.  So with a conclusion that shows Nishino and Manaka together after saying they wouldn't talk makes no sense. 

o.O im sure you read the shame shitty translations that I read so Ill break it down for you again in detail.

He broke up with her because she was leaving anyway.  He decided to use that time without distractsions so he could follow his dreams and achieve his goals while she was away achieving hers to become a pastry chef.

His goal is simple, be able to make toujo's book into a movie and to be more reliable FOR nishino and no one else someday. 

He told her clearly its not because of Toujo but because of the novel and wanting to pursue his own dreams.  NOT BECAUSE OF TOUJO (now that its sunk in) its because he wants to make movies.

Quotes that support my beliefs

N=nishino
J= Junpei

Chapter 165 Page 04
J: "Its nothing like what you had imagined"

165 pg 5
N: "Then why did you say you want to break up with me?"
J: " Thats because of the novel Toujo wrote"
J: " its not because of Toujo but because of the Novel"
N " n-novel?"
J " ... I love movies so I was able to use my imagination to quickly visualize
the story into a movie"

pg 6
J " but not matter how much I imagine it, as of now it amounts to nothing more than a dream"
J  " thats why I seriously want to aim for the path of filmmaking"
J " im not playing around as this is related to my future"

Skip dialogue to page 7

J " But I can't keep depending on nishino otherwise I wouldn't be able to fufill my dreams ( IMO he means: if he used her for his support he would be like Toujo and not be able to write without her except in this case he wouldn't be able to make movies on his own)
J "Thats why I will do my best while you are studying abroad in france"
J " Oh yeah if i make a new movie i will post it to france"
J " so when nishino returns I will become a more reliable person"

^^^^ Game set and match, hes thinking about his future with her right there.

N " but during that time I might have found some other guy"
J " even if thats the case I will stay with my decision"

page 08
N " youre right ... no matter what junpei-kun says to me, I will still leave for france"
N " this is probably the same thing"
J " im sorry nishino"
N " never the less im still junpei kuns girlfriend til I leave for france"

page 11 skipping thru the bitter chocolate bittersweet parting
She kisses him he embraces her

J "when are you leaving how much longer can we meet"

page 12
N " thats why until then hold me tightly"
J  thoughts "the remaining 15 days passed quickly"
after the last day of snow of our highschool life I met up with nishino EVERYDAY
As expected I failed to get into my first choice university
But compared to that pain ...

page 13
... that pain
(note oh yeah hes talking about parting with nishino sounds like he really wants to get rid of her so bad, some breakup that was HAHA)

skip ahead through their parting
page 16
Nishinos thoughts:
I will not turn around
NO matter how we meet seperation definitely will come
Its also time for me and junpei kun to part ways
We will meet again someday when we have both matured
but... but...but

*turns around*

page 17
*sees junpei*
N " wha? dont tell me youve been following me all this time"
J "even you nishino, you said you will definitely not turn around"

page 18
Nishino embraces junpei
N " we will meet again right"
N " we will meet again someday right"  <--- passionately said
J " of course but, people are staring at us"
N " when we meet next time, junpei kun you have to become someone who will make my heart flutter even more"

page 19
she tells him she will wait for him at cannes (some fancy place in southern france"

Junpei thoughts: walking on the path of our goals for now goodbye"

end

Hmm for now goodbye eh? sounds like hes going to meet up with her again.  Sounds like hes only getting seperation so he can totally dedicate himself to his dream of being a filmmaker.  I think he doesn't want to be relying on her cuz she might become his crutch.  When he broke up with her it was not at all cuz of anything she did or her personality or because of aya, he even states it was NOT because of aya.

So my assertation is she was going to be far far away anyway, what better way to concentrate on his own goals which to him at the time seemed distant to him so he had his work cut out for him. 

After that supposed break up scene what does he do? oh yeah spend every free moment with nishino.

If you guys think failing to get into a school is not a painful experience I dont know what to tell you, but apparently having to part with nishino is far far worse.

Last but no least he has already rejected toujo twice, not once, not zero times but 2 fricking times.  He did not in any way shape or form breakup with nishino because he didn't like her or because he liked someone else better.  He broke off from her so he could work toward his future with her based on this quote

Quote
J "Thats why I will do my best while you are studying abroad in france"
J " so when nishino returns I will become a more reliable person"

So he decided to get his space from her so he could concentrate on the HUGE task in front of him and allow her to achieve her goals.  She was gone anyway.  He did this because he loved her and wanted to achieve his own dreams as well.  For those two reasons. 

This whole picking thing at the end was never ever in doubt, denial by Aya fanboys but never in doubt. 

I have completely backed up ALL of my assertations with EVIDENCE that will honestly become far far clearer when YANIMES superior translation comes out and you reread a better translation. 

Regardless I dont think anything is debateable anymore, read this and know the truth.

But then again you apparently missed all this the first time??? maybe reading is your problem, its either that or complete fanboyism denial, either way you probably wont change your mind even though you are completely and utterly wrong.

He would NOT have chosen Tsukasa over Aya if he loved aya more.  You are right we could argue forever and you would still be wrong.  He would  not have rejected Toujo twice and ended up with Nishino if he liked Aya more.  doesn't matter what you say the ending, the authors ending makes you wrong and proves me right.  Maybe Im an ass about it but blind fanboyism annoys me and I made this topic to bring the truth (even if it hurts) and because its kinda fun to debate)

END of long ass discussion sorry for all that length ^_~

Offline Grahf

  • Seeker of Power
  • Budding Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 578
  • Gender: Male
  • HNIC
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2005, 04:27:27 AM »
Edit:  Understand this statement you don't need to read the rest.  What had happened prior to the break up chapter?  OO yeah Aya basically told Junpei to move on with his life.  Aya made him cry on valentines day and oo yeah Manaka didn't call Nishino until after he read the novel that was in the mail box.  ::) Aya always was the most influencal person towards Junpei.


Again you are using one chapter where they broke up.  You could go into that chapter ad nauseam and tell me that you feel that He did this and that for Nishino alone.  Maybe you're still missing the damn point.  That was only one chapter out of the last 10 or so where the development was going towards Aya and Manaka.  Hell the next chapter went right back to the graduation.  The ending made no sense you could try to justify it with ONE chapter out of the most important ones to the end.  But it isn't going to go over with me.  That like the Prosecution going through evidence that points towards guilt but finding another that proves the defendant is innocent (which is less clear). and basing their arguments on the evidence that makes the defendant innocent, only to make him innocent in the end.

Yes he wants to make the movie just so he could feel accomplished in his dream.  But his dream is still part of Aya's dream and for you to say that he is still doing it for just himself is wrong.  It is still Aya's novel and it still was of the original driving force of the manga.

That chapter where they broke up I knew it was going to happen and the question was how it was going to happen.  It happened in such a way that there wasn't any bad feelings between the 2.  But 4 years later there was no progression in their characters.  Ok Manaka got bigger and Nishino did as well but I can't help but realize that they are still the same characters that they were.  O and FYI their relationship never really worked before but I guess you wouldn't notice that.

I mades sense to you because you're a Nishino fan ok (from what I skimmed in another thread).  But I'm not someone that allows my fanfare to skew the way I read and understand plot devices and development.  This and GSD are examples of how to totally mess up a story just because popularity contest.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 04:52:17 AM by Grahf »


G-thugin it up.

Offline catullus

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2005, 03:41:55 PM »
regardless of what you say your wrong again.  im sorry you think that he could have just been like uh im going out with nishino good luck after graduation aya and thanks for everything.

Nah doesn't quite work like that in complicated love triangles.  The last chapters with buildup with aya as you put it, is not buildup with aya but the closure for both junpei and aya and resolving the fact that they wont be together.  None of it is good, its Manaka rejecting toujo twice and Aya deciding she has to get over junpei and be stronger.

WhyTF do you think that means they are building up or are going to end up together? cuz the focus is on aya? lol yea i forgot they were supposed to just say goodbye in one page and that was to resolve EVERYTHING.

Man how bad would you toujo fans bitch after that if that happened? LOL  They just suddenly cut AYA out of the manga for the last 13 chapters LMAO
while I would not have minded so much, I do think the story would have been not as good if after ALL THAT INDECISION he just was like oh ya, i like nishino better later.  Nah that would be a letdown.  It was better with more angst and drama and thats what made it good.

Offline Grahf

  • Seeker of Power
  • Budding Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 578
  • Gender: Male
  • HNIC
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2005, 08:06:28 AM »
WhyTF do you think that means they are building up or are going to end up together? cuz the focus is on aya? lol yea i forgot they were supposed to just say goodbye in one page and that was to resolve EVERYTHING.

Man how bad would you toujo fans bitch after that if that happened? LOL  They just suddenly cut AYA out of the manga for the last 13 chapters LMAO
while I would not have minded so much, I do think the story would have been not as good if after ALL THAT INDECISION he just was like oh ya, i like nishino better later.  Nah that would be a letdown.  It was better with more angst and drama and thats what made it good.

Satsuki was cut out of the last 13 chapters. 

where did Manaka reject her twice?

Again I'm not saying that Aya should have been picked but it was written to seem as if she was going to be towards the end. As I've said in the other thread my choice was that he end up alone. Then again if you look at it Satsuki and Aya still had a better ending than Nishino even though they weren't "picked".  They showed development albiet that Satsuki was developed back in the early 100s.

This manga wasn't good.  It was good in the first few volumes then a downward spiral ensued which it couldn't recover from.  I wanted to see the ending to see if it was written properly (which it wasn't). 

I'll also assume that if you seen GSD that you think that it was a good series. Because both series pretty turned out the same way. Popularity contest basically swayed in which the story was headed and consequently ended.  You could tell me I'm wrong all you want but there is one flaw with you that isn't present in me.  I'm not letting a character dictate how I follow a series.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 08:07:24 AM by Grahf »


G-thugin it up.

Offline idonthaveausername

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2005, 10:40:41 PM »
Hey guys,

I would like to say this is my first time reading a manga and I think it is the best one I could have chose!  I haven't read either vol 18 or 19 but the ending was spoiled when I went to look for vol 18.  >:(  I went on a forum to a thread of some guy asking for vol 18 and some idiot blurts out the ending with no warning!

But I have to say now after 10 mins after this happened I'm glad I saw the spoiler 'cause it would have drove me nuts waiting for the last two volumes!  :P

So my comment is that it make sense that he took Nishino.  At first I was pissed (Aya fanboy here) but after a while it makes sense to me.  Mostly due to me agreeing with your comments here.

I wished he would've taken Aya though.  He had love at first sight when he saw her and he had his dreams so close to hers, it would've made sense! (I would have taken her no problem.  ;))  But oh well it will still be a great ending no matter what and when its over, I'm going to read it again! :)


As I said I have no hard feelings on the ending, I'm happy as long as he didn't take satsuki (don't like her aggressive personality). 

But the only thing I do regret is that now I have nothing to read (exception of vol. 18/19) :-[

If you have any suggestions of other manga please PM me!  I'm a noob to manga.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 10:42:11 PM by idonthaveausername »

Offline Zero07

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Gender: Male
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2005, 01:31:45 PM »
My prediction of the 10 years after the 4 years when the film studio club met:

Manaka ends up with Toujo Aya. Manaka had relative compatibility issues with alot of the heroines in the manga, when you look at compatibility i don't think this manga brought up the issue of a long term relationship with any of the other heroines  except for the Manaka and Toujo pairing, it would've been nice to see Satsuki vying for Manaka's affection in the end but Satsuki only showed signs of a developing crush, expressing your love to someone in a heartbeat isn't really love, Nishino's signs of development was when she asked Manaka out while doing that crazy chin-up but she generally seems to be a stoic character who probably wants to have sex with a guy she thinks worthy i mean in a lot of the sceanes Nishino was pushing Manaka to do so, Yui is like a sister, Misuzu would've been a funny pairing with Manaka, there was always clues in the manga that she sort of looked up to Manaka being the director so she probably had a small crush on him, and Kozue with her ecchi thoughts(i also though Toujo also thought of ecchi things since Kozue and Toujo are made from the same base and Toujo never said no to Manaka =) probably liked Manaka too much and seemed more like a fan, Toujo doesn't need Manaka in her life, she could do well without him, but Manaka needs Toujo Aya in his life, he won't garner much success unless he is paired with her, this is not a business issue, but an issue about realising a dream, Manaka and Toujo are both imaginative but when Manaka can bring her dreams to life, this is probably a gift far greater than anything he can give to the other heroines, plus in the last chapter we feel that Toujo still hasn't lost feelings for Manaka
and the silence ensues.....

Offline Zero07

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Gender: Male
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2005, 01:36:07 PM »
comment on my last post^, im not totally right, maybe 75%, manaka could've met new people in those 10 years, and have forgotten his past romances and actions he's not just bound to people he met in the series
« Last Edit: October 22, 2005, 02:54:53 PM by Zero07 »
and the silence ensues.....

Offline minerva

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Member of Toujo Aya Fans club
    • Bahamut Sphere
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2005, 02:57:09 PM »
while you debating with the story plot
i want to talk on author / mangaka side,
this time lets put anything about character popularity aside [since somehow i believe there are more people like toujo more than nishino]

since i read vol.1 this manga sure have nice scene that can changes reader emotion, there are some parts that make me got heartbeat when reading it [dunno if other reader feel that too or not]... so for me, kawashita-sensei is mangaka that have great idea in creating scene that can make reader got the emotion/feeling when reading the manga ... i never got those feeling when reading other manga before

so for the ending i am thinking that he want to give us another suprise ... big suprise maybe ... a unusual ending that never on another similar manga ...
since there are scene in the story that showing the feeling between toujo - manaka - nishino is somehow strong compared to other girls .... you guys should feel the bonds between them is different to another girl [ie satsuki . kozue . yui] so the ending is somehow clear... most of people will rot toujo start from the beginning of the story [since usually the story will go like that... if you guys read another similar comic... ie Love Hina,  i know there are another ending but ending with main girl is often we see right ^^]

the infamous 1508 coupon one of scene that many people questioning is making strong point that the story decided to end with toujo... but for me imho that just kawashita-sensei plan that he want to let us think that manaka will end up with toujo
but the fact ... he pick nishino as girl that end up with manaka ...

well there will be no end if we keep debating / complaining about the ending... maybe we as reader want the ending like we want ... but on another hand kawashita-sensei successfully give "suprising ending" which somehow i don't think that is the right decision for his popularity, since people prefer ending with manaka

but again, becoz this, people talk up about ichigo ... than it show that ichigo is popular ^^
and that show how many people love toujo-san too right ^^

at the end, i just want to ask you guys... did you enjoy reading the manga despite the ending ?
if yes, that means it's a good manga, am i right ? ^^

« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 03:02:12 PM by minerva »

Offline minerva

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Member of Toujo Aya Fans club
    • Bahamut Sphere
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2005, 03:05:07 PM »
while you debating with the story plot
i want to talk on author / mangaka side,
this time lets put anything about character popularity aside [since somehow i believe there are more people like toujo more than nishino]

since i read vol.1 this manga sure have nice scene that can changes reader emotion, there are some parts that make me got heartbeat when reading it [dunno if other reader feel that too or not]... so for me, kawashita-sensei is mangaka that have great idea in creating scene that can make reader got the emotion/feeling when reading the manga ... i never got those feeling when reading other manga before

so for the ending i am thinking that he want to give us another suprise ... big suprise maybe ... a unusual ending that never on another similar manga ...
since there are scene in the story that showing the feeling between toujo - manaka - nishino is somehow strong compared to other girls .... you guys should feel the bonds between them is different to another girl [ie satsuki . kozue . yui] so the ending is somehow clear... most of people will rot toujo start from the beginning of the story [since usually the story will go like that... if you guys read another similar comic... ie Love Hina,  i know there are another ending but ending with main girl is often we see right ^^]

the infamous 1508 coupon one of scene that many people questioning is making strong point that the story decided to end with toujo... but for me imho that just kawashita-sensei plan that he want to let us think that manaka will end up with toujo
but the fact ... he pick nishino as girl that end up with manaka ...

well there will be no end if we keep debating / complaining about the ending... maybe we as reader want the ending like we want ... but on another hand kawashita-sensei successfully give "suprising ending" which somehow i don't think that is the right decision for his popularity, since people prefer ending with tojyo-san

but again, becoz this, people talk up about ichigo ... than it show that ichigo is popular ^^
and that show how many people love toujo-san too right ^^

at the end, i just want to ask you guys... did you enjoy reading the manga despite the ending ?
if yes, that means it's a good manga, am i right ? ^^



Offline phur oneesan

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Gender: Male
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2005, 04:01:42 AM »
as much as I have enjoyed the ending of this manga, I felt as if I was ripped off.
c'mon, most of us are rooting for toujo, me included. after all the dates between the girls?I really thought he'll end up with kozue.LOL!!! the author's intentions were clear when he introduced satsuki. he really meant to give this manga longetivity by introducing characters to play minor / major role on manaka's life. which all of us, despite the confusion, went with it.

to answer the question, I guess it did. if toujo hasnt severed her feelings for manaka, I guess we could be reading at least one more volume of the series. but for the sake of building up for the climax, they crammed the whole 15 chapters into one volume. then again, I fell for it.

Offline cityman

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2005, 08:02:51 AM »
I'm really surprised with all the negativity in this forum.  For me, the ending fit quite well.  Manaka's indecision and lack of confidence was showcased and was the main driver for most of the storyline.  As the story progressed, he grew as a person, discovering what he valued out of life, his friends and his girlfriend.  With Nishino's confession, he was finally forced to make a decision.  And starting from that point on, you can see that he starts to become decisive and confident, although he still wavered at times.  The four year gap continued the trend, showing how he developed into a real man and to me, it's obvious that the impetus for much of his growth was Nishino.

In terms of closure, it was necessary to devote much of the last chapters to his relationship with Toujo.  It had to show how Toujo and Manaka dealt with the ending of their crush.  It had to show that their bond was still real, but as friends who support and inspire.  It had to show that Toujo suffered and learned her lesson, so hopefully she won't screw up future relationships (I personally place most of the blame on her for them never getting together.)

His relationship with Satsuki didn't require that much closure because it was so one-dimensional to begin with.  There was never any depth or real storyline devoted to Satsuki, other than showing off her body.

It was also quite apparent to me that Nishino was always the true love interest.  Throughout the entire series, his relationship with Toujo and Satsuki never changed...never progressed and remained one dimensional.  His relationship with Nishino, on the otherhand, was very dynamic, with surprises, disappointments, extreme happiness, etc.

Oh, to people who keep insisting that there are major problems in the relationship between Manaka and Nishino, I disagree.  The major problems were caused by lack of trust on Nishino's part, and lack of confidence on Manaka's part.  Both of these problems are gone by the end of the story. 

(I know most of the debate already happened a while ago, but I just finished reading it recently, and I was bursting to 'talk' to someone.  I don't have any RL friends who read manga.)

Offline Freeter

  • Slightly Buzzed
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2005, 09:14:17 AM »
The major problems were caused by lack of trust on Nishino's part, and lack of confidence on Manaka's part.  Both of these problems are gone by the end of the story. 

Manaka's problem may be gone, but Nishino's is still up in the air.  There's no telling whether she conquered her insecurity or not.

Toujou may be out of the picture, but what will happen if Manaka works with a female producer?  Or what if he collaborates with a female associate from Kawakura's firm?  Will Nishino trust him enough to not become possessive and/or throw in the towel early (ch 165)? 

We'll never know....

Offline cityman

  • Clean
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2005, 12:23:10 PM »
Manaka's problem may be gone, but Nishino's is still up in the air.  There's no telling whether she conquered her insecurity or not.

Her lack of trust and insecurity was caused by Manaka's inability to fully commit to her and his ability to get into compromising situations.  I don't think she's a insecure person.  She's savvy enough to see all the signs.  She is 100% correct to have doubted him.

Remember the scene when Manaka regrets that he's not experienced enough to kiss away Nishino's insecurities?

But by the end, he made his decision.  He's no longer the indecisive idiot that kept on hurting Nishino and the other girls.  I think we can assume that he's no longer giving Nishino any reasons to doubt him.  But yes, these are assumptions based on how the story ended.  It's possible Manaka could relapse, but like you said, we'll never know.

Offline Freeter

  • Slightly Buzzed
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2005, 07:05:15 PM »
Quote
Remember the scene when Manaka regrets that he's not experienced enough to kiss away Nishino's insecurities?

But did he even date anyone during those four years?  How can he gain experience without even being in a relationship?

We'll never know....