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Were you surprised by the ending?

Yes
34 (63%)
No
20 (37%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*  (Read 22940 times)

Offline catullus

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*spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« on: October 04, 2005, 03:36:41 AM »
Warning Spoilers unless you have read ALL of the manga

Now I have been hearing that its so shocking about the ending like it came out of nowhere as if Tsukasa was just thrown in the last volume and Junpei chose her.  I think its honestly because of Aya fanboys that closed their eyes or didn't want anything else to happen, understandable really but what pisses me off is that they say the ending sucks or trash the manga now because of it.

One of the main arguements I hear is that after Chapter 1 they were sure Aya would be picked HAHAHA ok.  Yes it might have seemed that way after what? the first 30 pages out of the hundreds there are?  I am rereading the manga and taking notes.  This Nishino thing didn't happen out of nowhere there were huge flashing signs the whole freaking way even IN chapter 1 and 2 of the first volume (I guess some of you missed those)

So now I will be posting these notes with a conclusion as I reread the manga to put this whole crappy ending to rest.  BTW I thought it was an excellent ending and some fans just have sour grapes there favorite wasn't chosen?  and yes I am a Nishino fanboy admittedly.

Offline catullus

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2005, 03:39:55 AM »
Heres my volume 1 post of my notes
Massive Spoilers for Volume 1

The number is referring to the page of the last referenced chapter of course
so you can see for yourself (assuming of course there were no mistranslations heh)

chapter 1 - 21
He wants to reply to tsukasa but finds himself
unable to speak in their first meeting

- 22
"hey come on, I have finally known tsukasas beauty I get all embarrassed just thinking about her" - Junpei

-38
"really cute once I gazed down those eyes, how should i say it my entire body was turned to stone" - manaka talking to aya

- 48
after realzing Tsukasa wasn't ichigo panties girl thought bubble "but shes also very cute"

chapter 2 - 03
"she has the face of a superstar" - junpei

- 04
So cute, Tsukasa is really super duper cute

- 16
"Aaah Tsukasa its all your fault that my heart has pumped up 10 years worth today"

- 17
But i didn't expect that tsukasa would turn out not to be the girl with the ichigo pantsu

It doesn't matter anyway Tsukasas really cute too

Side note - Tsukasa IS the first girl Manaka ever walks home ^_^

Chapter 3 - Gets uber depressed just seeing Nishino talk to a handsome guy without knowing the circumstance

- 20
Even though he doesn't want to think about tsukasa his heart beats faster every time he does (or it hurts not sure heh)

-21 Gets a nosebleed just by getting her phonenumber whispered into his ear

Chapter 4

-02
Too scared/nervous to even call her

-03
"I feel so special" cuz she said only he and her family had the cell number

and his ears are still sensitive from when she whispered in his ear that night

-04
States that "it makes me nervous just thinking about how you look"

Then goes on to dream/fantasize about Nishino saying that she really likes him.

- 12
After seeing a shy expression on ayas face wonders how nishino would look with it
-13
expresses "god id die for it"
Then "someday i must see that on nishinos face

Chapter 5 nothing much happens

Chapter 6 - 13
Tsukasa says to junpei that she is relieved after he took the cellphone cuz he forgot her number because she said he acts like sometimes hes not interested in her at all

-16
One is the prettiest girl in the entire grade, the other is the smartest girl in the entire grade

Note that he knows the Ichigo Panties girl is in his grade and not tsukasa when he says this

Chapter 7-05
While watching tsukasa sucking on a straw wishes he could die and come back as a straw

7-15 Ironic Note
While I dont think it means anything on the nishino side of the frame he wonders is this heaven? and on the aya side he wonders or is it hell" LOLZ

Chapter 08 - 02
Starting from today nishino is going to be studying with us, I got so excited about it I even got up early heh heh heh

Chapter 08 - 12
Tsukasa states "if i really met someone I liked id definitely go and confess myself"
(this is an important thing to remember for later on in the story ;)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2005, 03:40:17 AM by catullus »

Offline Gomez799

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2005, 05:57:37 AM »
it wasnt a surprise.When nishino wished on that bamboo boat on the threeday vacation with manaka it was a sign that they would be together :P

Offline Baboonator

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2005, 07:16:53 AM »
What you say make sense if Toujo doesn't exist (or even Satsuki).

Offline Grahf

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2005, 11:19:15 AM »
No I wasn't surprised by the ending but it didn't make sense.  If you actually understood the finer points of plot and development you know why it didn't make sense.  It has nothing to do with chapter one or chapter 20.  It has to do with the final 10 or so chapters.  The main focus of those chapters were the relationship between Aya and Junpei.  Thus making any other ending not make any sense.


G-thugin it up.

Offline henh2o

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2005, 12:56:47 PM »
i wasn't really surpised due to the fact that nishino has been on so many dates with manaka compare to aya. but i am suprised it ended all in 1 chapter wtf bbq

Offline Ferret mage

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2005, 03:06:07 PM »
Pretty much what Grahf said. If the last ten chapters had been more like 70 through 125 then I would've been more excepting of the whole thing. Instead we got a lot of Toujo scenes and Manaka whining....then 4 years later and what this? They still love each other without any explanation!!
And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a theif in the night, and one by one dropped the revellers in the blood bedewed halls of their revel. And the life of the ebony clock went out with the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all...

Offline catullus

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2005, 03:12:32 PM »
Hmm I do agree that the ending was abrupt shikoshi that doesn't mean that he didn't love Nishino the most.  I think not only throughout the entire manga but the last ten chapters as well

Ending Spoilers
He broke up with nishino at the end because as it was he could NOT ask her to stay and forgo her dream to be a pastry chef in france and then go and seek out his own dream to make movies.   He also broke up with her so he could become a man worthy of her.  He broke up with her because of some realization the novel Aya wrote not because of Aya herself.

I think he always like Nishino the best, when he got a nosebleed from the chocolates she made that one valentines day even when he didn't know they were from her and when on white day he found out they were from her he then made sure Satsuki and Aya got the SAME gift.  Also on his 17th birthday he tried to refuse both Aya and Satsukis gifts.

Point being I think he ALWAYS intended to choose nishino, the drama which occurred is because while he loved Nishino the best he also cared deeply about both Aya and Satsuki and did NOT want either of them to be hurt by him which lead to his indecisiveness. 

Aya had many chances to probably change the circumstances because I do feel that Junpei cared for her almost as deeply as nishino and he was certainly attracted heavily to all 3 of them, however those things she could have done did not happen. 

The first girl that Junpei ever initiated a kiss with (not was kissed by) was nishino.  He also wished that she would always be smiling (that right there should have made the ending inevitable)

So it came down to him finally having to reject Aya (after rejecting Satsuki many times)  while many think that he chose nishino  because he thought he Aya had a boyfriend I tend to think that was not the case.  Certainly you could make that arguement but you could also argue that he finally had the opportunity to be with Nishino without hurting Aya since she now had a boyfriend.

Remember if he REALLY liked aya the most he would have cried over it, like amachi, instead he went right to Nishino and went out with her again.  I do believe it was because he felt that he could finally do it without hurting aya and he was surprised when it wasn't her boyfriend and was her brother instead cuz then he realized that he was probably going to end up hurting her anyway.

I think later in the manga became focused on nishino, there was there 3 day vacation and then after they supposedly split up (after he failed the exams) he spent every single moment he could with her til she had to leave.  Including that touching goodbye at the airport.  If you reread those scenes there really is no doubt who he likes the best.

The last scenes focusing on aya were for closure with her, he HAD to reject her confession and then come to some kind of terms with her and allow her to come to some kind of terms with the fact Junpei chose Nishino and that allowed Aya to decide for herself that while it hurt she could let junpei go and it even made her a stronger person because of it.  It seemed like she was able to write in spite of him now where as before he seemed to be her muse.

Regardless that is why the last chapters focused on aya, if that wasn't there, there would be no closure between Aya and Junpei and thats all it was. 

I think Junpei cared about Aya deeply, very deeply and thats why he was like wishing she would or wouldn't turn around, because while he loved Nishino more he loved Aya almost as much and was pretty much devastated by having to hurt her.

That is my take on the ending, very beautifully done.   As far as the very last chapter with the meeting yes I wish it lasted a lot longer, however it was more of an epilogue than an ending.  It was sort of saying what happened 4 years later extremely briefly and showing that he and nishino did end up meeting again after waiting so long.

I choose to believe that his closure with Aya was the true ending and that he had already made his choice several chapters earlier with Nishino at the airport. 

Junpei wishes he could die and come back as nishino's straw, I wish I could die and come back as Junpei lol.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2005, 03:16:03 PM by catullus »

Offline Xander

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2005, 01:47:34 PM »
I don't agree that Junpei loved Tsukasa the most throughout the whole manga at all.

Come on! In the first 6-7 volumes Tsukasa was almost in a secondary role, even behind Satsuki. She started to have real presence in the story from when she starts working in the cakes shop and Junpei in the Izumizaka theatre. Before that, his feelings towards Aya were clearly stronger, and they keep very strong until the end of the story.

But hey, I'm an Aya fan and still I was happy with the ending, though maybe it is because I see it in a different way from most of people (or at least the people I've seen)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2005, 01:49:33 PM by Xander »

Offline Wired Momo

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2005, 03:23:08 AM »
The ending didn't suprise me that much. When Manaka rejected Toujo in Chapter 153, he didn't really give it much thought, he just gave the answer. In Chapter 163 they basically broke off for good. Although in the end the manga had a lot of the plot based on Toujo, it was more the breaking up for Toujo and Manaka.

In Chapter 165 there is also a scene where Nishino was leaving (like Toujo was in the park) but in this case Manaka followed her. And instead of thinking 'Don't turn around' as he did with Toujo, he wasn't really upset that she did. If her departure was really the end of their relationship then Manaka would have probably expressed this with tears. I thought that after Chapter 165 it was extremely evident that he would end up with Nishino.

In Chapter 166 when Manaka talks about how Tojou's conclusion had no relation (that she was finally able to break away from Manaka and How she could only write for him before)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2005, 03:38:44 AM by Wired Momo »

Offline triquetra

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2005, 03:44:07 PM »
The ending didn't suprise me that much. When Manaka rejected Toujo in Chapter 153, he didn't really give it much thought, he just gave the answer. In Chapter 163 they basically broke off for good. Although in the end the manga had a lot of the plot based on Toujo, it was more the breaking up for Toujo and Manaka.


I can't say that Manaka didn't think about it. I mean he knew Toujo's feelings from Sotomura's little sister. Her confession was just a confirmation.

Hear my opinions before you discard them:

First, I was rooting for Toujo from the beginning, however I have nothing against Tsukasa.

You can't say that Manaka had nothing for Toujou, he admitted that she was his first love. I believed that if Toujou had confessed before Tsukasa Nishino did at the monkey bars Manaka would of accepted and happy.

catullus, I doubt that Toujou Aya had continued writing without Manaka's influence. After all, he was the one that inspired her to pursue that career and Toujou Aya would be forever grateful. I think she does try to pull away from him but there is always a little part of him that is in her writing.

In the last chapter I can see that Toujou still loves Manaka Junpei. Did you see the look on Toujou's face as Manaka walked in in the last chapter? There is still that feeling of still wanting him but not of the extent of when she was still in high school.

Manaka... I don't hate him for choosing Tsukasa but for him to choose her tells us, the readers, that we don't fully know Manaka as a person (unless you were rooting for Tsukasa Nishino all along  :) ). That's not to say that we don't know Manaka.

As for the minor characters, I feel that it was messed up that the mangaka didn't tell us what happened to them i.e. Yui, Amachi, and especially Mukai.

If you have some questions, or something that I wrote that was confusing quote it and place it on this thread. If you care so much  :)

P.S. DAMN YOU TSUKASA NISHINO FANS. You win this time...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2005, 07:49:14 PM by triquetra »

Offline Wired Momo

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2005, 01:17:52 AM »
I can't say that Manaka didn't think about it. I mean he knew Toujo's feelings from Sotomura's little sister. Her confession was just a confirmation.

Yes he may have thought about the possibility beforehand but he reaction was still very immediate, there was no "Give me time to think about it"/"I'll give you time to think about it" or much dialog between them, just a blunt apology and rejection from Manaka.

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I believed that if Toujou had confessed before Tsukasa Nishino did at the monkey bars Manaka would of accepted and happy.

Yeah, but she didn't and it would have been very un-Toujo like to have done so at that stage of the manga.

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catullus, I doubt that Toujou Aya had continued writing without Manaka's influence. After all, he was the one that inspired her to pursue that career and Toujou Aya would be forever grateful. I think she does try to pull away from him but there is always a little part of him that is in her writing.

I believe that she would have still been a great writer but her talent would have been wasted if it were not for Manaka. He was the one which praised her work after reading her maths book. Oh and I think that she was finally is able to accept that she had to pull away from him in the end.

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In the last chapter I can see that Toujou still loves Manaka Junpei. Did you see the look on Toujou's face as Manaka walked in in the last chapter? There is still that feeling of still wanting him but not of the extent of when she was still in high school.

I personally don't especially agree. The images seemed to me like happiness more than love. She looked surprised that Manaka was working on the piece that she wrote in her maths book

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As for the minor characters, I feel that it was messed up that the mangaka didn't tell us what happened to them i.e. Yui, Amachi, and especially Mukai.

Maybe the mangaka thought that these characters would have little correlation with the characters in the future? Or maybe they thought that the meeting was exclusively for the film club? Either way I wasn't too interested in them, but that is just me.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 01:21:17 AM by Wired Momo »

Offline triquetra

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2005, 10:50:05 AM »
I can't say that Manaka didn't think about it. I mean he knew Toujo's feelings from Sotomura's little sister. Her confession was just a confirmation.

Yes he may have thought about the possibility beforehand but he reaction was still very immediate, there was no "Give me time to think about it"/"I'll give you time to think about it" or much dialog between them, just a blunt apology and rejection from Manaka.

His action for rejecting Toujou was immediate b/c he thought about it beforehand. There was no longer need for him to think about it.

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I believed that if Toujou had confessed before Tsukasa Nishino did at the monkey bars Manaka would of accepted and happy.

Yeah, but she didn't and it would have been very un-Toujo like to have done so at that stage of the manga.

It was un-Toujou like of her to confess to Manaka, but she did. Maybe if she took the dive...

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catullus, I doubt that Toujou Aya had continued writing without Manaka's influence. After all, he was the one that inspired her to pursue that career and Toujou Aya would be forever grateful. I think she does try to pull away from him but there is always a little part of him that is in her writing.

I believe that she would have still been a great writer but her talent would have been wasted if it were not for Manaka. He was the one which praised her work after reading her maths book. Oh and I think that she was finally is able to accept that she had to pull away from him in the end.

She did pull away from him, but not entirely. Every little thing in someone's past life influence's the person in present. Manaka's presence still would linger in her words.

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In the last chapter I can see that Toujou still loves Manaka Junpei. Did you see the look on Toujou's face as Manaka walked in in the last chapter? There is still that feeling of still wanting him but not of the extent of when she was still in high school.

I personally don't especially agree. The images seemed to me like happiness more than love. She looked surprised that Manaka was working on the piece that she wrote in her maths book

I meant before he mentioned the book to her. She gave him a longing stare as soon as he walked in.

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As for the minor characters, I feel that it was messed up that the mangaka didn't tell us what happened to them i.e. Yui, Amachi, and especially Mukai.

Maybe the mangaka thought that these characters would have little correlation with the characters in the future? Or maybe they thought that the meeting was exclusively for the film club? Either way I wasn't too interested in them, but that is just me.

How can you not want to know what happened to the other characters? Boo, some fan you are..  :P



Offline Wired Momo

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2005, 04:19:54 AM »
I can't say that Manaka didn't think about it. I mean he knew Toujo's feelings from Sotomura's little sister. Her confession was just a confirmation.

Yes he may have thought about the possibility beforehand but he reaction was still very immediate, there was no "Give me time to think about it"/"I'll give you time to think about it" or much dialog between them, just a blunt apology and rejection from Manaka.

His action for rejecting Toujou was immediate b/c he thought about it beforehand. There was no longer need for him to think about it.

The manga didn't really show that he was really directly thinking about it beforehand. I still think his reaction would have been the same if Sotomura's little sister didn't say anything to him. The reason why he could reject her was because he felt that Nishino was more important (after seeing her sad expression when she suspected him of loving Toujo, he would rather Toujo be sad than Nishino). "But compared to Toujo's tears now, it pains me even more looking at Nishino's lonely expression" - Manaka.

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I believed that if Toujou had confessed before Tsukasa Nishino did at the monkey bars Manaka would of accepted and happy.

Yeah, but she didn't and it would have been very un-Toujo like to have done so at that stage of the manga.

It was un-Toujou like of her to confess to Manaka, but she did. Maybe if she took the dive...

I think that the reason why she was able to confess later on compared to beforehand is that she wasn't pressured too much to do so. Later on it was sort of like 'It's now or never'. (Things like the fact that their school lives were ending and other things made her do this)

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catullus, I doubt that Toujou Aya had continued writing without Manaka's influence. After all, he was the one that inspired her to pursue that career and Toujou Aya would be forever grateful. I think she does try to pull away from him but there is always a little part of him that is in her writing.

I believe that she would have still been a great writer but her talent would have been wasted if it were not for Manaka. He was the one which praised her work after reading her maths book. Oh and I think that she was finally is able to accept that she had to pull away from him in the end.

She did pull away from him, but not entirely. Every little thing in someone's past life influence's the person in present. Manaka's presence still would linger in her words.

It obviously would, but Manaka wouldn't be any more special than any other person in terms of the influence people had on Toujo's writing.

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In the last chapter I can see that Toujou still loves Manaka Junpei. Did you see the look on Toujou's face as Manaka walked in in the last chapter? There is still that feeling of still wanting him but not of the extent of when she was still in high school.

I personally don't especially agree. The images seemed to me like happiness more than love. She looked surprised that Manaka was working on the piece that she wrote in her maths book

I meant before he mentioned the book to her. She gave him a longing stare as soon as he walked in.

Well it looked like that she was happy that he was alive and well to me. But you can't really confirm anything, it's just too vague.

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As for the minor characters, I feel that it was messed up that the mangaka didn't tell us what happened to them i.e. Yui, Amachi, and especially Mukai.

Maybe the mangaka thought that these characters would have little correlation with the characters in the future? Or maybe they thought that the meeting was exclusively for the film club? Either way I wasn't too interested in them, but that is just me.

How can you not want to know what happened to the other characters? Boo, some fan you are.. :P

Well it would have been pretty random if they did show what happened to them unless it miraculously made sense, such as one of those characters started working for Sotomura or started a relationship with one of the member's of the film club. Oh and I didn't especially like Amachi either so I didn't really mind too much.

Ack. Too many quotes make me dizzy. What a a quote-fest.

Offline triquetra

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Re: *spoilers* why the ending made sense *spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2005, 10:52:52 AM »
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It obviously would, but Manaka wouldn't be any more special than any other person in terms of the influence people had on Toujo's writing.

I think you're wrong. Toujou's writing is affected by Manaka more than anything. But to me, Toujou never wrote to impress Manaka, that was just a plus. Instead, her writing was influenced by him. Her stories would have a different outcome if Toujou had never met Manaka.

edit:

Does anyone remember what chapter where it was Tsukasa'a flashback of Manaka in Junior High School?

edit again: Never mind I found it. Chapter 80..
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 07:51:39 PM by triquetra »