Author Topic: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion  (Read 11956 times)

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2005, 01:39:19 AM »
He better stay with her... or he has become the ultimate jackass. I prefer Toujo, but Nishino is a great choice... if he sticks with it. I just hope doesn't go along with the moment of huge emotion like he used to.

To tell the truth, I'm not worried about Junpei- it's Tsukasa that you should look out for. As I said, Tsukasa is quite insecure about Aya's relationship with Junpei. She knows that, even with her as the official girlfriend, Aya is still not out of Junpei's life. Although the events on CH153 and 154 may put to ease some of Tsukasa's insecurities, people don't change overnight. If she feels threatened again, she MAY buckle or lash out (either at Junpei or Aya).

Besides, the way Kawashita has characterized him, I don't think Junpei is one to give up on a relationship. I think it will be more Tsukasa that will cause a break-up, if ever. How does that make sense, especially after all the effort she's put into "getting" Junpei? Well, if she remains insecure about Aya, this will definitely affect her and Junpei's relationship.

If Junpei decides to break-up with Tsukasa, I'm almost certain Kasashita will put some relevant reason behind it- not doing so would be contrary to how she's built up Junpei's characterization. So, if nothing else happens, I see Junpei graduating High School with Tsukasa as his girlfriend. Now, who he really ends up with in the long-term is still murky. Who knows? Maybe Junpei and Tsukasa will find out they're NOT for one another because of some fundamental difference and it turns out that Yui or even Misuzu is the one he actually ends up with for the long haul?

You know, I think, at the beginning, it seemsed like Toujo was going to win... but the turning point was when Manaka attempted to make the other boys go away, did NIshino decide to assertively pursue Manaka again. Her actions lead her to "win" Manaka.

Tsukasa's actions were always clear-cut while Aya was more subtle. That was the main difference between the two girls. Just because Aya didn't show any obvious action, she wasn't exactly playing the maiden-in-distress, either. Examples of these can be found littered throughout the manga- from the time they got trapped in the gymn to Aya trying to rescue Junpei from the swimming pool (CH126?).

It wasn't that Aya was afraid to communicate her feelings, rather, she was acting in accordance to the traditional Japanese custom of not saying what you mean directly (which is considered 'polite' by the Japanese. Being stright-forward is considered rude).

Toujo and Manaka always seemed to get into weird "situations" as if fate pushed them together, more often than with Nishino. However, neither acts, so we are left with a standoff with who goes first.

I thought those were missed opportunities, though, to make either Manaka or Toujo grow, by making either, or both, of them more assertive.

NIshino is more like "take action, be assertive, not over bearing" kind of method. Always pushing Manaka, but always leaving the final choice to him. I think she wasn't characterized very well in the first couple of chapters; she seemed unpleasant. It was after she went off to the all girls school, and then attempted to get Manaka's heart again did her characterization really improve.

This, however, is more critiques of the author than actually of the characters; the manga author could have done a better job.

That's why I said that Aya needs this time to be alone so she herself can grow. Look at Tsukasa- she matured when she was apart from Junpei. I think when you just become yourself, you tend to figure out life a lot better. I think this is what led Tsukasa to her resolve to win back Junpei.

It was unfortunate that Junpei and Aya were too immature for the feelings they had for one another. But I think this situation cannot be avoided. Both need to grow on their own- Junpei needs to figure out how to handle a relationship so he's not just stumbling in it and while Tsukasa is there to help Junpei in his growth (weaksauce :D),  Aya needs to do more self-discovery and find her inner strength- she has a lot but she just may not be aware of it.

Now, looking at Kawashita's parting shot for this chapter, all I can do is groan and ask how many more chapters is this going to cost us  ???
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 02:02:19 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Grahf

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2005, 05:51:29 AM »
it can still end in good time if its done right.  Even if there is a flip .......

Its sad that I expect it to happen, but I'm sure that it will.  Not because Junpei wants it to happen.  The first time they broke up Junpei really didn't want to break up then as well, but they did.  Not saying he wasn't at fault (it goes both ways).  Tsukasa hasn't faced her demons as of yet and when she does will be an important point in the story.  She refused to watch the film clubs movie because of her insecurity and I that that was (and still is) big.


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Offline Ferret mage

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2005, 01:59:09 PM »
What am I crowd of one!?! ???

It seems like everybody is saying that Manaka and Toujo are always going to end up together. That is just way to predictable for me, why would I read over 155 chapters of Ichigo to just know something that I thought would happen in the first place.

Manaka and Nishino had always seemed like the best choice for me because Manaka has always spent the most time with her.

You don't blow off kissing Toujo or going on dates with others girls just for a girl your not going to end up with in the end!!

I keep telling myself that the next chapter will tell us who he ends up with and this always happens.

Oh and I think that phrase at the ends means that Toujo and Manaka are going to get a chance to make a movie together.

But I still think he'll end up with Nishino...I can only hope.

I gave up on Manaka/Satsuki for this!! I can't take another let down people!!!

And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a theif in the night, and one by one dropped the revellers in the blood bedewed halls of their revel. And the life of the ebony clock went out with the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all...

Offline Grahf

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2005, 02:45:26 PM »
It seems like everybody is saying that Manaka and Toujo are always going to end up together. That is just way to predictable for me, why would I read over 155 chapters of Ichigo to just know something that I thought would happen in the first place.

Manaka and Nishino had always seemed like the best choice for me because Manaka has always spent the most time with her.

You don't blow off kissing Toujo or going on dates with others girls just for a girl your not going to end up with in the end!!

So you're saying that Aya Junpei is obvious although Junpei and Tsukasa spent the most time together???  Then I would say that Tsukasa and Junpei is the obvious one.  Want to talk about predictable.

We are saying that there will be conflict because of Junpei's dream.


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Offline Ferret mage

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2005, 03:37:03 PM »
What I am saying is that everyone expected that him and Toujo would end up with each other.

That's why it would be a change of pace if he ended up with Tsukasa instead of Toujo. (Or Satsuki would be better.)

But if they did end up then that would be somewhat of a letdown, because the ending would have been something that everybody thought when they started reading.

Besides, why is everyone taking Toujo sides!? Manaka would be a real ass to hurt Nishino like that again.

And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a theif in the night, and one by one dropped the revellers in the blood bedewed halls of their revel. And the life of the ebony clock went out with the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all...

Offline Grahf

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2005, 03:45:46 PM »
gawd do you people read the post??  I think Ambi has been saying it and I've been saying almost the same exact thing.  Because of Tsukasa's insecurity regarding Aya is what would cause the conflict. 

Junpei has made his decision about which girl.  Though he hasn't said anything about his dream recently.  What was his dream do you remember that?  He wants to direct movies (with Aya).  Though Aya has made it clear that she no longer wants to do the same and if I'm correct that was the last mention of his dream.  Now the way the manga ended with "the Dream now begins" (or whatever it was exactly) Junpei will have to make decisions regarding his dream.  Of course Tsukasa knows what his dream is and that is why she is insecure about Aya.  I doubt it will be a Junpei hurting Tsukasa as much as Tsukasa hurting herself.


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Offline Ferret mage

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2005, 04:16:56 PM »
Hmmmmm good point...but I think that Nishino loves Manaka just to much for her to just dump him so that he can be with Aya.

But that could just me being wishfull.
And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a theif in the night, and one by one dropped the revellers in the blood bedewed halls of their revel. And the life of the ebony clock went out with the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all...

Offline Grahf

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2005, 04:24:28 PM »
So why did Nishino decide to not watch the movie that they made?  Think of Junpei saying that he didn't want to eat one of Nishino's cakes. 

I'm not saying that this will bring Aya and Junpei together (as a couple).  But it will effect the Tsukasa x Junpei pairing as if it were.  Though I don't see Aya going back down that road ( I hope).


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Offline JackalWackal

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2005, 04:32:16 PM »
I think there's a conflict of interest between Manaka and Nishino, and between Manaka and Toujo.

The dream is interesting conflict; this is much, much more bigger conflict between Nishino and Manaka, though, because she will be out of the country; knowing Manaka, he is easily swayed when someone leaves him alone too long.

The only three I can think of that have similar dreams, or is willing to follow Manaka somewhat, and this is purely opinion, is Kozue, Sotomura (Misuzu), and Yui.

But I feel none of them is (right now, at least) that close to Manaka when compared to Nishino's, Toujo's, or Satsuki's level of closeness to Manaka.

But we have at least 1 more chapter to go... It would interesting, (if not frustrating), to see how Manaka controls his emotional sways.

I don't know what to say about Chinami.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 04:35:11 PM by JackalWackal »

Offline Ferret mage

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2005, 04:34:38 PM »
But why would Nishino be angry if Manaka made films with Aya? Wouldn't she think that her going to Paris would also affect their relationship?

I think it might make her think about her relationship with Manaka, but then he would take the intiative (For once.) and tell her that he loves her and only her.

But then again, that's what I would do. So I don't know what will happen.

And now was acknowledged the presence of the Red Death. He had come like a theif in the night, and one by one dropped the revellers in the blood bedewed halls of their revel. And the life of the ebony clock went out with the last of the gay. And the flames of the tripods expired.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all...

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2005, 04:36:16 PM »
What I am saying is that everyone expected that him and Toujo would end up with each other.

That's why it would be a change of pace if he ended up with Tsukasa instead of Toujo. (Or Satsuki would be better.)

But if they did end up then that would be somewhat of a letdown, because the ending would have been something that everybody thought when they started reading.

Besides, why is everyone taking Toujo sides!? Manaka would be a real ass to hurt Nishino like that again.

So, just because it's expected means it's no good? And here I thought it was the story (oe even the art) that people are after. Most murder mysteries start by knowing who dies. Does that detract from knowing how the victim died? Have you heard the saying "it's not the destination but the journey?" This is what costitutes character-driven work- becuase the plot is fairly known from the start, you focus on the characters and their relationships/emotions.

If this manga is about Junpei choosing the girl, then this should have stopped around CH145. However, it hasn't because it's not really about choosing the girl- it's abot Junpei's experiences and how he grows up as a result. It's about him chasing his dreams. It's been there since CH1. The reason he went up to the roof (and thus met Aya) was because he had dreamt of filming something like the sun setting. He said that making movies is the most important thing to him and that's why the story is still going on. Choosing a girl was inevitable and now that he has, he has shown some back-bone which is expected because of Kawashita's characterization. I mean, I knew he was going to reject Aya in CH153 because he and Tsukasa really didn't break-up on CH151.

So, like in their first relationship, it will be Tsukasa's actions/emotions that determine wheter they stay together or not. With the events that transpired between them in CH154, does she trust Junpei enough to let him chase his dreams with Aya without stressing their relationship?

Now, even with the tag line at the end of CH155, that is no guarantee that Aya will agree to collaborate again with Junpei, especially with her garnering recognition for her works outside the film club. I would like to think she would move forward with her own journey now that she doesn't have Junpei holding her back but she did say in CH152 that in her heart, scriptwriting (or making movies with Junpei) was also her dream.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 04:38:53 PM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline JackalWackal

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2005, 04:37:08 PM »
He better stay with her... or he has become the ultimate jackass. I prefer Toujo, but Nishino is a great choice... if he sticks with it. I just hope doesn't go along with the moment of huge emotion like he used to.

To tell the truth, I'm not worried about Junpei- it's Tsukasa that you should look out for. As I said, Tsukasa is quite insecure about Aya's relationship with Junpei. She knows that, even with her as the official girlfriend, Aya is still not out of Junpei's life. Although the events on CH153 and 154 may put to ease some of Tsukasa's insecurities, people don't change overnight. If she feels threatened again, she MAY buckle or lash out (either at Junpei or Aya).

Besides, the way Kawashita has characterized him, I don't think Junpei is one to give up on a relationship. I think it will be more Tsukasa that will cause a break-up, if ever. How does that make sense, especially after all the effort she's put into "getting" Junpei? Well, if she remains insecure about Aya, this will definitely affect her and Junpei's relationship.

If Junpei decides to break-up with Tsukasa, I'm almost certain Kasashita will put some relevant reason behind it- not doing so would be contrary to how she's built up Junpei's characterization. So, if nothing else happens, I see Junpei graduating High School with Tsukasa as his girlfriend. Now, who he really ends up with in the long-term is still murky. Who knows? Maybe Junpei and Tsukasa will find out they're NOT for one another because of some fundamental difference and it turns out that Yui or even Misuzu is the one he actually ends up with for the long haul?

You know, I think, at the beginning, it seemsed like Toujo was going to win... but the turning point was when Manaka attempted to make the other boys go away, did NIshino decide to assertively pursue Manaka again. Her actions lead her to "win" Manaka.

Tsukasa's actions were always clear-cut while Aya was more subtle. That was the main difference between the two girls. Just because Aya didn't show any obvious action, she wasn't exactly playing the maiden-in-distress, either. Examples of these can be found littered throughout the manga- from the time they got trapped in the gymn to Aya trying to rescue Junpei from the swimming pool (CH126?).

It wasn't that Aya was afraid to communicate her feelings, rather, she was acting in accordance to the traditional Japanese custom of not saying what you mean directly (which is considered 'polite' by the Japanese. Being stright-forward is considered rude).

Toujo and Manaka always seemed to get into weird "situations" as if fate pushed them together, more often than with Nishino. However, neither acts, so we are left with a standoff with who goes first.

I thought those were missed opportunities, though, to make either Manaka or Toujo grow, by making either, or both, of them more assertive.

NIshino is more like "take action, be assertive, not over bearing" kind of method. Always pushing Manaka, but always leaving the final choice to him. I think she wasn't characterized very well in the first couple of chapters; she seemed unpleasant. It was after she went off to the all girls school, and then attempted to get Manaka's heart again did her characterization really improve.

This, however, is more critiques of the author than actually of the characters; the manga author could have done a better job.

That's why I said that Aya needs this time to be alone so she herself can grow. Look at Tsukasa- she matured when she was apart from Junpei. I think when you just become yourself, you tend to figure out life a lot better. I think this is what led Tsukasa to her resolve to win back Junpei.

It was unfortunate that Junpei and Aya were too immature for the feelings they had for one another. But I think this situation cannot be avoided. Both need to grow on their own- Junpei needs to figure out how to handle a relationship so he's not just stumbling in it and while Tsukasa is there to help Junpei in his growth (weaksauce :D),  Aya needs to do more self-discovery and find her inner strength- she has a lot but she just may not be aware of it.

Now, looking at Kawashita's parting shot for this chapter, all I can do is groan and ask how many more chapters is this going to cost us  ???

If it was consiered rude... why did Nishino did what she did? Is that rude? (Not sarcastic challenge question).

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2005, 04:42:29 PM »
Because she was characterized as being boyish from the start (using boyish Japanese terms like "ore", etc.). Plus, I think her mother is a foreigner (which would account for her and her mother's blond hair) and could have played a role in infuencing her behaviour. And the obvious reason that the NISHI in her last name means West so she's more like a Western girl (who tend to be more straight-forward).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2005, 04:43:41 PM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Grahf

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2005, 04:44:56 PM »
But why would Nishino be angry if Manaka made films with Aya? Wouldn't she think that her going to Paris would also affect their relationship?

Thats how she is and has been. That is the reason that she ended the first relationship.

I hope Aya moves on. XD


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Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: ****SPOILER**** Ichigo 155 RAW Disscussion
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2005, 04:52:52 PM »
Or Kawashita can use this to close the gap between Tsuaksa and Aya. Say Aya refuses to collaborate with Manaka becuase it's awkward. What would happen if Tsukasa went to Aya and convinced her to work with Junpei (like what Aya did to get Tsukasa to play the heroine in the second movie)? It would show that Tsukasa trusts Junpei and fully supports his dream. This would also probably mend the already strained relationship between Aya and Tsukasa if they discuss their feelings toward Junpei in a more open manner.

Is this the ideal setting? If Kawashita is rushing to end  the manga, it probably is but it's way to unrealistic because Tsukasa has always been a little selfish (and she's actually admitted it to Junpei- read CH145) and I don't think this will change overnight.

 

anything