Author Topic: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion  (Read 7660 times)

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2005, 10:25:27 PM »
You haven't read Ch 123 to 125 so I won't spoil it for you.

Offline Shiin

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2005, 06:05:10 AM »
[Bottom-line, Tsukasa is weak emotionally.

Quite contrary to your belief, she is a pretty strong girl. If I had to go through the whole series again to point that out it would take forever :)
But hey, we all have our favourite lady, so debating over who deserve what is kinda... moot point don't you think? ;)
Let's let the author decide.

Offline Grahf

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2005, 06:39:25 AM »
Aya on the contrary likes to keep distance away from Junpei... Only thing Aya ever did was write the scripts and share the story... on the surface, it may seem that's a huge contribution, however, if you notice closely, Tsukasa is always behind Junpei helping him and supporting him( clean his house, give chocalate, etc...) It is totally injust to have Aya and him together...

That is all What?  things she can hand to him and that he can touch.  She is supportive but beyond the second movie what has she done for his Dream?  She didn't even want to see the third movie because of Aya's line.  That isn't very supportive if I remember correctly Aya was on set for the second movie.  She didn't just walk away from the situation.  She even watched and liked the movie right? Hence she is weak emotionally, all these girls aren't perfect.  They all have their weaknesses some are more appearant then others.

Remember Junpei's reaction when he heard Tsukasa wanted to study abroad?  If I remember correctly he supported her and was let down a bit but he was able to understand it.  Same with Aya but that seemed to have move of an effect on Junpei.  How do I figure that? Him curling up lol XD


G-thugin it up.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2005, 06:39:57 AM »
Well, I could provide counterpoints that would prove otherwise. And contrary to popular beleif, I think the author has decided a long time ago, don't you think?

Offline JackGrover

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2005, 07:13:26 AM »
Ambi, far be it for me to disagree with someone I look up to, but I whole-heartedly agree with Errorrr and Shiin in that in most every case, except the initial confession, Tsukasa has made the first steps towards bringing the relationship, between her and Manaka, that next step closer but he always seems to dissapoint her in not making any return gestures.  THAT is what frustrates her the most I think.

*Steps up on to soapbox*

Now I know we can say that Manaka won't do anything because they are not dating... BUT!.. would YOU, yourself, not take the hint (After about 3 dozen hints) and at least pull her into your arms and kiss her?  Or even just confess again!  Anything like that would work towards deepening their relationship.  And that is probably all Tsukasa needs.  Is to hear him say those words... "Nishino... I.. I....... I like you the best."

The biggest argument I can make here is this.  While you were reading this manga (I myself am only up to Chapter 115) did you EVER, at anytime, mentally yell at Manaka to DO something, ANYTHING, to show her he loves her?  Whether it was just holding her hand, calling her, kissing her, hugging her... anything.

If you did, then there is proof that you too believe Manaka is failing to do what the girls, especially Tsukasa, need him to do.

And just for this argument it doesn't matter what the mangaka has already written, this is what we see and it is what leads most of us to assume Aya will be the girl Manaka gets.  Because Aya is timid and willing to wait for her Junpei-kun, while Tsukasa-chan has a stronger self image and is more able to take her own path.

*Steps down off of soapbox*
imho

The arrival of Spring brings with it thoughts of...

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2005, 07:33:55 AM »
Oh, it's true that in every step, Tsukasa has been the one to lead Junpei into new experiencec. That was never in question. However, you know that she has a motive behind these acts: to get herself and Junpei closer together. So why doesn't she finish the job? She always leaves it up to Junpei to close the deal but it doesn't work out the way she wants so she gets frustrated. Why can't SHE take the hint that with Junpei, she has to be the one to take the task to completion? You mean to say that after 152 chapters, she still hasn't figured this out? It doesn't matter if a girl gives me a thousand hints- if I'm not really interested in her, her gestures will not have any direct effect on me.

But the one thing Tsukasa hasn't done which I really hoped she would do is to FORCE Junpei into confronting his feelings for Aya. You would think for once, she would ask Junpei if he has feelings for Aya. She has never done this. Not once. The closest she got was during the filming of the second movie when she asked if something was going on between him and Aya but that is not the same as coming out directly and asking him is he likes Aya. You can tell that she already probably has a good indication of what Junpei's answer would be but for her own sanity, she should already confront him. Now, I know that the Japanese don't like confrontation but isn't Tsukasa more like a western girl? If she is, she shouldn't have qualms about confronting Junpei about his feelings for Aya.

And Jack, you don't have to feel sorry for disagreeing with someone.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2005, 07:42:59 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline JackGrover

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2005, 08:34:45 AM »
Ah, my good friend Ambi, you forget one VERY important detail.  You are talking about women!  A man would have rushed forward and done just what you say.  But a woman?  Never!  That's why they say that when a woman says "No", she really means "Yes" (No offense to the fairer sex intended). That is also why, when you ask a woman "What's wrong?".. they almost always say.. "Nothing"  or even, "If you don't know then I'm not going to tell you!".  That is why we see Tsukasa act the way she does.  And my guess would be that she is probably a lot like the mangaka, explaining why Tsukasa seems so much more 'real'.

Oh, that would bring up the second most important detail... the mangaka is a woman!  THAT is why we see such good female characters in this manga.

 :D

The arrival of Spring brings with it thoughts of...

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2005, 08:58:09 AM »
Ok. But I think they should be past that stage. Besides, Tsukasa is more stright-forward than any girl in the manga. Consider that Tsukasa's situation is not far from RL: you probably know some girls who are great but are in a relationship with a total looser and you think- "why did she go for that guy?" You see them give up their own aspirations to be with someone who holds them back and you think- "what a waste." I don't think this situation is lost on Kawashita (who you've kindly pointed out is a woman) and that is why, in the end, I think Tsukasa herself will decide that she and Junpei are not meant for each other- to show that some women can forge their own path even without the support of a significant other. I realize that this argument is also applicable to Aya but as it stands, Tsukasa is the one that is currently being held back (her dream of becoming a pastry chef has taken a back-seat to her wanting to get back with Junpei) by her wish to be with Junpei while Aya has been honing her craft through her scripts and literary works. Tsukasa's weakness is that she lets her emotions cloud what she should have realized a long time ago- but then again, love makes us do that, doesn't it?

It's fine to root for two people to be together as long as it's for the right reasons. Right now, I don't feel that way towards Tsukasa and Junpei because it's still too one-sided.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2005, 09:21:05 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline iodoethane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2005, 09:27:57 AM »
Quote from: Aya (page 15)
demo konomama anata o ushina itakunakute
  "but as it is, i'm loosing my commitment (to you)."

Oh yah this actually means "But I don't want to lose you just like this" =)

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2005, 09:35:03 AM »
Thanks, iodethane. But what does "itakunate" stand for?

Offline JackGrover

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2005, 10:41:20 AM »
Ack!  I can't find my soapbox!

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Offline Errorrrr

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2005, 12:39:36 PM »
Everyone from the beginning know Aya is going to be the one that wins the "Weakest Girl" game... C'mon it's always this way lol... A nice rule to follow in these Harem stuff is that:
The first main encounter with the first fair girl(usually the one on the book/case cover) will be the one that the character end up with.
I can pretty much say that statment was a fact, but i think someone can always find exception but you can safely assume that's 90% of the case. As you already pointed out, Tsukasa is the one that's going to break off the relationship, I can already feel it. Junpei will try one last attempt to put his feet in two boats, but the boat that Tsukasa is on will drift away. I do hate Aya...

Offline Grahf

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2005, 03:54:47 PM »
I can pretty much say that statment was a fact, but i think someone can always find exception but you can safely assume that's 90% of the case. As you already pointed out, Tsukasa is the one that's going to break off the relationship, I can already feel it. Junpei will try one last attempt to put his feet in two boats, but the boat that Tsukasa is on will drift away. I do hate Aya...

With that said why do you hate Aya?? She hasn't up till now said anything that would sway Junpei's heart.  If you're trying to turn water into wine that could explain your hate.  Don't blame Aya for Junpei's indecision, she hasn't made an effort because she has respected Junpei/Tsukasa's relationship (not to sure about right now).  But she has put her feeling on the back burner many of times so I wouldn't say she is the "weakest girl".  She is strong in some areas but where she is weak is expressing herself at crucial moments. 

I really don't understand how people could hate characters in stories/animes.  All of them have places in the stories that they are in.  I like all the girls in this manga I don't think any of them deserve "hate".


G-thugin it up.

Offline mcchrone1980

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2005, 09:47:02 PM »
Quote from: AmbiDextrose


Quote from: Aya (page 18 & 19)
kao mi tara  mata nani mo i e nakunatsu chau kare suki na no chugaku no ano hi kara zutto zutto
  "because if i tell you face-to-face, i might cry again. i've really loved you since that day in middleschool."

I translate this according to the chinese raw. I think its along the lines of:
Aya: "because as long as I see your face, I won't be able to say it...."
Manaka: "You won't be able to say it if you see my face..."
Aya: "I've always (all along) like you since that day in middle school".
I think zutto=all along/all the time

Anyway we should wait out for the next few chapters and see who Manaka chooses. To me, Manaka ending with Aya or Tsukasa is fine but I would have prefered Tsukasa as their relationship have been through too much to just break up like that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2005, 09:51:20 PM by mcchrone1980 »

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 152 RAW discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2005, 06:55:42 AM »
Quote from: Aya (page 15)
demo konomama anata o ushina itakunakute
  "but as it is, i'm loosing my commitment (to you)."

Oh yah this actually means "But I don't want to lose you just like this" =)

Hmmm. Now that I've lookd at it closely, I think this line should read:

Quote
demo konomama anata o ushinaitakunakute

If I break the last word down, the root (dictionary) word is 'ushinau' which means to loose. If I put this is conjuctive form, it becomes 'ushinaI'. 'taku' is the conjuctive form of 'tai' which expresses 'want' of the person saying it and 'nakute' is the 'te' form of 'nai' auxilliary, which is a negation of the verb it is conjugated to. So, this would mean that 'ushinaitakunakute' actually means 'i don't want to loose (you)' :D.

How's that?

Now that I'm starting to get my head around verbs, the next step for me would probably be adjectives and adverbs, then it's on to particles :D. What fun!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 07:03:04 AM by AmbiDextrose »

 

anything