Author Topic: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion  (Read 8068 times)

Offline iodoethane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2005, 02:42:18 AM »
I've tried to change the lines to what I think they are, I may be wrong though. My Japanese isn't anywhere near as good as you seem to think, though I'm flattered you think I might be good enough to 'correct' you ^^

doshite ano eiga misenai tsute omoera no ka
Why do you (what makes you) think I would want to see that movie?

ano eiga no tojo-san honto ni junpei-kun no koto suki mitai datta
I can see that Tojo really likes you (Junpei) in the movie.

sakki tojo-san to atte toki mo. atashi no te patte hanashite
Also, just now when we met Tojo, you let go of my hand in a hurry.

jaa doshite
If that's the case, then why,

tojo-san bunkasai ni sasotsu tano ga ototo-san tsute wakatte
when you found out that it was Tojo's brother accompanying her at this festival,

junpei-kun hotsu toshite tano. . . .
You seemed genuinely relieved.

. . . dano da. gomen umaku waraetai
I can't. I'm sorry I can't smile (I'm not certain about this. Actually here she's apologising for her expression, one look at which anyone can tell she's about to cry)

mae mitai ni fuan na kimochi de tsukiau no wa iya
I don't want to feel uneasy like the last time.
 
atashi bakadane
I'm so silly, ain't I?

junpei-kun no kotoga doshiyomokai kurai. . . .
I'm so helpless when it comes to you.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2005, 10:32:31 PM »
Thanks to all those kind enough to take the time and review my translation attempts. To you, a very heartfelt Do(u)mo arigato(u) gozaimasu. Here is my transcription on the entire sequence, including Junpei, Aya and Shotaro's dialogues:

Quote
NT: "why do you think i want to watch(view) that movie?"

MJ: istu mitan dayo nishino. . . .
       "when did nishino watch. . . ."

NT: "in that movie, tojo-san's feelings for junpei-kun seemed real."

NT: "when we ran into tojo-san, at that moment, you let go of my hand"

MJ: sore wa. . . . na nantonaku hazukashikatta kachi kara janeka na fukai imi wo naisedo
       "that. . . somehow i felt embarrassed because of what i was thinking but it doesn't mean anything."

NT: "well then, what for?"

NT "when you realized tojo-san invited her younger brother to the culture festival"

NT: "junpei-kun felt relieved, right?"

NT: ". . . it's useless. excuse me for the fake smile."
      ". . . it's useless. excuse me. i can't smile anymore."

-------------------------------- scene cut --------------------------------

TS: ne-chan
       "big sister"
       "sis"

TS: ano eiga no kansou itte ii?
       "i'm saying that my impression of that movie is good." (why the question mark?)
       "can i say that my impression of that movie is good?"

TA: un! doudatta?
       "yeah! (i'm guessing the next line) what part?"

TS: umibe da no kokuhaku shin ne-chan. are honki de itten daro
       "i guess the beach confession scene when (big) sis said those serious things."
       "the beach confession scene. i guess when (big) sis said those serious things."
       "the beach confession scene, (big) sis, when you said those serious things, I guess."

TS: chuugaku no toki kara ne-chan suki na otokotte.
       "since that time in middleschool, sis, you have (loved/liked) a guy.

TS: aishi dattanda na.
       "i see now."
       "i see. now i know."

-------------------------------- scene cut --------------------------------

NT: "lately, i've been feeling uneasy (insecure/anxious)."

NT: "you've hurt my feelings again- i don't want to go though this anymore. in spite of this. . ."
 
NT: "i'm an idiot/i'm so stupid (again, not sure about the translation)"

NT: "i can't help it when it concerns junpei-kun . . ."

-------------------------------- scene cut --------------------------------

TS: sounan daso ne-chan
       "it's a (useless) disaster, sis"
       "you're a disaster, sis"


I would be lying if I said I didn't expect things to turn out this way. Junpei is again at another crossroads. From all indications, it looks like the Tsukasa-Junpei paring is about to break, but this time I think it's for good- Tsukasa will renew her commitment to go to Paris to study confectionery (which has been put on the back-burner since her confession to Junpei). It might not happen during the next chapter, but I feel it's inevitability. I base this statement from Junpei's reaction when he discovered Aya was still available. Also, he was thinking something like "nanka kawaii" during the time that Aya was introducing her brother. Clearly, Aya still has a hold on Junpei and even Tsukasa's efforts (starting from chapter 123) is not enough to break this.

But what about Aya? How will she react? Will she still hold out for Junpei or will she succumb to the same trap Junpei fell into by giving in to Amachi? On the surface, Amachi seems to be perfect for Aya. However, Amachi and Aya's character are a mismatch: Amachi's personality is too strong for someone as timid as Aya's. Eventually, Amachi will make all the decisions for Aya thus stunting her emotional growth. Like her cousin Haruka said, Aya needs someone gentle and trustworthy (she literally said reliable but I think trustworthy is the better word here). Although it seems Amachi posses both these qualities, he is also obsessive and overprotective. You know the saying- too much of anything is not necessarily a good thing.

If the mangaka plans on extending the manga, this will probably be that path that she will take but it will eventually lead to Aya and Junpei being together. So, what happens now that Junpei has confirmed that Aya has feelings for him (their feelings for one another are actually an open secret)? Currently, all the cards are in Junpei's  hands.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 11:03:48 PM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2005, 11:53:30 PM »
Been lurking here and the Yanime forums, and I've finally decided to join the discussions (Cross-posting style). Anyway, I spent all of yesterday (Sunday) reading all the currently translated chapters and a few hours trying not to read the spoilers for the current ones. I failed completely, but that's alright when it comes to this manga. Also, I'm sure that some of my thoughts aren't going to mesh completely since I only skimmed the current chapter summaries.

Time to get on topic.

I feel the way that Junpei is the way he is with Aya is because their feelings for each other were never out in the open the way they should have been long ago. He was always longing for that chance to be with Aya and probably would have dropped any- and every- thing for it. I know how that feeling can tug at a guy's heart even when you have someone already, but I wish that the mangaka would lead us in a different direction. A direction that would lead Junpei back to Tsukasa somehow, sort of how Takayuki found his way back to Mitsuki in Kimi Ga Nozumu Eien. That is what I'd really like to see, but alas, Tsukasa wasn't the girl that Junpei fell for first, so it probably wouldn't happen.

Hopefully, one of two things happens...

1. Junpei doesn't give in to his longing for Aya, but rather finally realizes that he should be with Tsukasa, not because of guilt, but because love is compromise and by giving up on this dream of his with Aya, he can finally enjoy being with Tsukasa without any doubts.

2. Junpei and Aya get together, but after a while realize that they were better being friends, instead of lovers. Junpei finds his way to France, a la your fanfic, and somehow convinces Tsukasa to give him a 3rd chance with her heart. (Afterall, 3rd times a charm, right?)

Now I know the likelihood of the story going down one of these paths is very low, but what if the mangaka was setting us up all along to belive he'd end up with Aya and had already decided long ago to surprise us with a Junpei/Tsukasa ending? That's what I'd like to hope, and the wait sure is painful.  :-\

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2005, 12:23:41 AM »
I'm probably one of the few who don't buy the Tsukasa-Junpei pairing.

First, these are two very different people with different goals in life. Both are very comitted to their own dreams and that is probably thier downfall. See, love isn't all compromise- that is a misconception. To be able to love someone, you first have to love yourself. Otherwise, nothing you will do will work and the relationship will eventually break. For young people like Junpei and Tsukasa, they define themselves by their dreams and aspirations. When you take this away, they become resentful when things don't go the way they envisioned them. It's such a delicate and precarious relationship that you have to treat it with kid gloves. If they become serious, either Tsukasa will have to give up her dream of being a pastry chef or Junpei will have to give up his dream of being a filmmaker (remember that Junpei's family is not too well-off and that's why he's aiming for Aoto University instead of a more prestegious one).

Second, their personalities are a mismatch. While Tsukasa was patterned after your typical Western go-getter, Junpei is more reserved. This is the main source of thier incompatibility- while Tsukasa lays her thoughts and emotions for Junpei to see, he keeps his close to the vest. He can't even admit that he LIKED Aya (for argument's sake). All he does is dodge the question or try to reassure Tsukasa about his feelings for her. If he would only say "No, I do not have feelings for Aya," that would put all of Tsukasa's doubts to rest. But he doesn't and so Tsukasa remains anxious and unsure.

Third, Tsukasa is actually insecure when it comes to Aya because SHE KNOWS Junpei has feelings for her. As long as there is no solid assurance from Junpei, Tsukasa will eventually get tired and end their relationship. No one is reliable all the time- we're all human. This is what chapter 151 wants to convey- everyone has limits.

Lastly, there is the issue of maturity. Tsukasa is undoubtedly more mature than Junpei. The question is will Junpei mature enough to take the lead in their relationship? My answer would be no, unfortunately. At this juncture, unless something drastic happens (e.g. they have sex), Junpei will never become more mature than Tsukasa or mature enough to take the lead in their relationship. Thus, it will always be Tsukasa who will take the lead. I think Tsukasa deserves better. She needs to be in a relationship with a more mature person so that it is she that gets taken cared for. I think Tsukasa deserves that much.

I would have been more supportive of this relationship if Junpei had shown one IOTA of thoughfulness or caring towards Tsukasa.

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2005, 01:34:24 AM »
Offtopic: Looks like I made that response longer than I thought it would be, but your response got my thoughts going. Although, I'm glad I took the time to post in the first place because I needed to discuss my opinions somewhere since my friends are not into manga.

I'm probably one of the few who don't buy the Tsukasa-Junpei pairing.

First, these are two very different people with different goals in life. Both are very comitted to their own dreams and that is probably thier downfall. See, love isn't all compromise- that is a misconception. To be able to love someone, you first have to love yourself. Otherwise, nothing you will do will work and the relationship will eventually break.


I'm with you there. Actually I had thought about that earlier today, but must have forgotten it when posting. Since we readers are on the outside, we can see things a bit more clearly than Junpei can. He clearly doesn't understand himself fully yet, but I see signs that he is making progress.

For young people like Junpei and Tsukasa, they define themselves by their dreams and aspirations. When you take this away, they become resentful when things don't go the way they envisioned them. It's such a delicate and precarious relationship that you have to treat it with kid gloves. If they become serious, either Tsukasa will have to give up her dream of being a pastry chef or Junpei will have to give up his dream of being a filmmaker (remember that Junpei's family is not too well-off and that's why he's aiming for Aoto University instead of a more prestegious one).

I agree with you here to a certain degree too. Of course if they ever became serious, one of their dreams would have to be put on the backburner. Although, I believe if they truly became serious and were in love, the one who gives up their dream would have no qualms about it because of their love for each other. (Although, I envision Junpei giving his dream up for Tsukasa, seeing as how Tsukasa's pastry skills are and how much she's improved from when she attempted to make dinner for Junpei.)

Second, their personalities are a mismatch. While Tsukasa was patterned after your typical Western go-getter, Junpei is more reserved. This is the main source of thier incompatibility- while Tsukasa lays her thoughts and emotions for Junpei to see, he keeps his close to the vest. He can't even admit that he LIKED Aya (for argument's sake). All he does is dodge the question or try to reassure Tsukasa about his feelings for her. If he would only say "No, I do not have feelings for Aya," that would put all of Tsukasa's doubts to rest. But he doesn't and so Tsukasa remains anxious and unsure.

Actually, I believe that they're quite right for each other. Tsukasa can slowly bring Junpei out of his reserved manner and help him become a better person. If Junpei and Aya were together, they'd both keep plenty of what they felt inside, rather than out in the open, which is exactly what has been causing the trouble all this time. If Ookusa had never told Junpei that he believed Aya liked him and if he had never seen Aya without her glasses, nor seen her in her stawberry panties again, I'm sure he would have grown out of that crush and become a better boyfriend for Tsukasa. But all of those things had to happen for Tsukasa and Junpei to mature even though Junpei's maturity is still quite low.

Third, Tsukasa is actually insecure when it comes to Aya because SHE KNOWS Junpei has feelings for her. As long as there is no solid assurance from Junpei, Tsukasa will eventually get tired and end their relationship. No one is reliable all the time- we're all human. This is what chapter 151 wants to convey- everyone has limits.

Quite true. But even though this is what she knows, she had no problems trying to make her way back into his life. All of those attemps to lead Junpei back to her had positive effects for their relationship, but like I said in my earlier post, the only way Junpei could truly be with Tsukasa was to be with Aya and realize that his feelings for Tsukasa are stronger, if that is the case. What I posted earlier was wishful thinking, but I'll admit, if Junpei never has a serious relationship with Aya, then a relationship with Tsukasa will always fail.

Lastly, there is the issue of maturity. Tsukasa is undoubtedly more mature than Junpei. The question is will Junpei mature enough to take the lead in their relationship? My answer would be no, unfortunately. At this juncture, unless something drastic happens (e.g. they have sex), Junpei will never become more mature than Tsukasa or mature enough to take the lead in their relationship. Thus, it will always be Tsukasa who will take the lead. I think Tsukasa deserves better. She needs to be in a relationship with a more mature person so that it is she that gets taken cared for. I think Tsukasa deserves that much.

It's true Tsukasa deserves someone who is as mature or more mature than she, but before this chapter, she has always longed to be with Junpei again. That's the reality of her situation, her feelings for Junpei have always been there, even moreso than Junpei's feelings for Aya's. I'm reminded of the time she told Junpei about the time she first noticed him running the track. This seemed to be quite early on in their middle school years and I don't know if Aya had already had feelings for Junpei before this event, but its safe to say that Tsukasa and Aya probably noticed him around the same time. We all choose to be who we're with, and after this chapter, we'll see if Tsukasa can still hold on to these feelings.

I believe it's much easier for Aya to keep her feelings alive, since they've been "hidden" from Junpei for so long. She hasn't had her feelings hurt as much as Tsukasa, or even Satsuki for that matter. Junpei has been able to hurt these girls because of his indecisiveness and they were still able to continue on with their feelings for him to a certain point. Tsukasa and Satsuki both seemed to have reached their limits long ago, but are willing to return for more because they've both vocalized their feelings. I wonder if Aya, who hasn't vocalized her feelings herself, will be the one Junpei does not hurt?

It seems your response, has shown me that Junpei, truly does not deserve these girls' affections. But I still believe that he should be with Tsukasa the most. By doing so, he can mature through his feelings for her, and through the process of regaining her trust and affection.

I would have been more supportive of this relationship if Junpei had shown one IOTA of thoughfulness or caring towards Tsukasa.

I can see where you're coming from here, but Junpei is thoughtful and caring to Tsukasa and the other girls as well. Not as much as he should have been, but it was there, even in his indecisiveness. White Day is a bad example, since it is part obligation to those who gave him chocolates on Valentines Day, but his remembering of Tsukasa's birthday and buying her a present surely shows caring and thoughtfulness? And when he began to work during the Christmas season, did he not plan to give all the girls presents? There's also the time when he learns that the Chocolates on the doorstep were from Tsukasa, he ran to thank her. If he wasn't thoughtful, he could have just left the thank you for another time, but instead he had to do it right then. I'm sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Junpei isn't the perfect guy. Hell, he most likely isn't the best guy for any of the girls in the manga. But through it all, they still find traits in him that make him attractive to them. If they all aimed for guys that were perfect for them in every way, they'd have their own share of problems from that. Isn't it better that these girls are not above themselves to fall for a guy that isn't perfect? Whoever they end up with, at least they'll be able to grow together, work through their relationship together, and just end up being better for it all.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2005, 09:33:06 AM »
I agree with you here to a certain degree too. Of course if they ever became serious, one of their dreams would have to be put on the backburner. Although, I believe if they truly became serious and were in love, the one who gives up their dream would have no qualms about it because of their love for each other. (Although, I envision Junpei giving his dream up for Tsukasa, seeing as how Tsukasa's pastry skills are and how much she's improved from when she attempted to make dinner for Junpei.)

Nobody should put their dreams on hold for anybody, especially young people, because that's how they discover themselves. Self-discovery is more important becuase if the person does not understand themselves, he/she will just get confused if they tried to understand another person. This, in turn, will lead to an eventual break-up. This is where Junpei is at- he is still on the path of self-discovery while Tsukasa has been well on her way. If you take away his dreams for the sake of a relationship with Tsukasa, they will eventually break up because he will never get past the confussion. Plus, after the initial euphoria settles and you have to live life, something like that will make one person frustrated because there is something preventing them from doing or becoming what they want.

Actually, I believe that they're quite right for each other. Tsukasa can slowly bring Junpei out of his reserved manner and help him become a better person. If Junpei and Aya were together, they'd both keep plenty of what they felt inside, rather than out in the open, which is exactly what has been causing the trouble all this time. If Ookusa had never told Junpei that he believed Aya liked him and if he had never seen Aya without her glasses, nor seen her in her stawberry panties again, I'm sure he would have grown out of that crush and become a better boyfriend for Tsukasa. But all of those things had to happen for Tsukasa and Junpei to mature even though Junpei's maturity is still quite low.

You seem to equate Junpei's maturity with that of being with Tsukasa. In the beginning, Tsukasa was waiting for Junpei to lead her but because he was too slow (or rather, too indecisive), she took it upon herself to lead Junpei (which is a sign of her maturity). While the first statement is true in a sense, people do not really mature because of who they're with. People mature because of their collective experiences- we are creatures of habit, after all. The experiences one goes through causes you to change your perceptions regarding your surroundings and you form your own convictions and beliefs- your moral backbone, so to speak. Being with a person can facilitate this and Junpei being with Tsukasa will most probably take him through experiences that he hasn't had with any of the other girls (that's certainly true right now) which will cause him to mature but how can you say that this won't be the case if he ends up with Aya, Satsuki, or Kozue? Each girl offers a different set of experiences that will take Junpei further along in his personal growth. I think he actually stands a greater chance of growing if he ends up with Aya because, from the start, he has to take charge of (i.e., lead, be responsible for) that relationship. Taking responsibility for something is a sure indication of personal growth. Besides, people do not mature overnight so it will take a while for Junpei to catch up to Tsukasa.

Also, I think most people (well, Westerners actually), think Aya is weak. I, being SE Asian, do not think so. Aya is actuall a strong person to be able to hold on to her feelings for oner person for such a long time (even with Amachi hovering in the background) plus she has her own dreams that she's pursuing. She is as deeply comitted as is Tsukasa- their only difference is that Tsukasa is an extrovert while Aya is introverted. She is still very self-concious and self-deprecating but that is probably because she just started on her own self-discovery (and also partly to the way she was raised- just look at her younger bother). Also, if you look at CH68 (when they got lost in the storm) and CH115 (when Junpei and Aya enden up in a storeroom in school after a downpour), Aya is willing to have Junpei lead her to new experiences which means she trusts him (she is probably the only character that trusts Junpei explicitly). I know that these are extreme examples but it gets the point across. Even Tsukasa doesn't have this level of trust (else, why should she be worried). It can be argued that Tsukasa was willing to go all the way with Junpei but how can you say that Aya is not? She may be just waiting for Junpei to lead her. And what's wrong with that?

Also, it was because of Aya that Junpei got together with Tsukasa. He wasn't even interested in her if not for the strawberry panties incident. So, it's all connected.

Quite true. But even though this is what she knows, she had no problems trying to make her way back into his life. All of those attemps to lead Junpei back to her had positive effects for their relationship, but like I said in my earlier post, the only way Junpei could truly be with Tsukasa was to be with Aya and realize that his feelings for Tsukasa are stronger, if that is the case. What I posted earlier was wishful thinking, but I'll admit, if Junpei never has a serious relationship with Aya, then a relationship with Tsukasa will always fail.

Unless he does something about it, Junpei will always have lingering feelings for Aya because he fell in love with her first (even while he was going out with Tsukasa at that point). He was ready to break-up with Tsukasa becuase of this but things started to get in the way. His feelings are very strong because he fell for Aya for the right reasons- not her looks but her personality. Unless he resolves this and find out that they're not compatible (for argument's sake), his relationship with Tsukasa will never succeed.

It's true Tsukasa deserves someone who is as mature or more mature than she, but before this chapter, she has always longed to be with Junpei again. That's the reality of her situation, her feelings for Junpei have always been there, even moreso than Junpei's feelings for Aya's. I'm reminded of the time she told Junpei about the time she first noticed him running the track. This seemed to be quite early on in their middle school years and I don't know if Aya had already had feelings for Junpei before this event, but its safe to say that Tsukasa and Aya probably noticed him around the same time. We all choose to be who we're with, and after this chapter, we'll see if Tsukasa can still hold on to these feelings.

I believe it's much easier for Aya to keep her feelings alive, since they've been "hidden" from Junpei for so long. She hasn't had her feelings hurt as much as Tsukasa, or even Satsuki for that matter. Junpei has been able to hurt these girls because of his indecisiveness and they were still able to continue on with their feelings for him to a certain point. Tsukasa and Satsuki both seemed to have reached their limits long ago, but are willing to return for more because they've both vocalized their feelings. I wonder if Aya, who hasn't vocalized her feelings herself, will be the one Junpei does not hurt?

It seems your response, has shown me that Junpei, truly does not deserve these girls' affections. But I still believe that he should be with Tsukasa the most. By doing so, he can mature through his feelings for her, and through the process of regaining her trust and affection.

The same can be said for Satsuki. In the end, Junpei has hurt all of them (including Aya, remember CH149?).

While it is true that Tsukasa first noticed Junpei when he was punished for arguing with a teacher, she also said that she forgot the incident shortly afterwards (because of exams, I think). Only when he confessed to her in the playground did she remember who Junpei was.

Again, I ask the question: why can't Junpei mature with another girl besides Tsukasa?

I can see where you're coming from here, but Junpei is thoughtful and caring to Tsukasa and the other girls as well. Not as much as he should have been, but it was there, even in his indecisiveness. White Day is a bad example, since it is part obligation to those who gave him chocolates on Valentines Day, but his remembering of Tsukasa's birthday and buying her a present surely shows caring and thoughtfulness? And when he began to work during the Christmas season, did he not plan to give all the girls presents? There's also the time when he learns that the Chocolates on the doorstep were from Tsukasa, he ran to thank her. If he wasn't thoughtful, he could have just left the thank you for another time, but instead he had to do it right then. I'm sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Birthdays and calendar events don't count. I'm talking of little things like just calling her up once in a while (this is one of Tsukasa's pet peeves about Junpei) or just doing something nice out of the blue (like inviting her out for a movie). We see none of these little things that do a lot in building a relationship.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2005, 03:33:06 PM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2005, 09:06:44 PM »
Nobody should put their dreams on hold for anybody, especially young people, because that's how they discover themselves. Self-discovery is more important becuase if the person does not understand themselves, he/she will just get confused if they tried to understand another person. This, in turn, will lead to an eventual break-up. This is where Junpei is at- he is still on the path of self-discovery while Tsukasa has been well on her way. If you take away his dreams for the sake of a relationship with Tsukasa, they will eventually break up because he will never get past the confussion. Plus, after the initial euphoria settles and you have to live life, something like that will make one person frustrated because there is something preventing them from doing or becoming what they want.

You're right that if Junpei's dream is taken away, a break-up is eventual, but if Junpei gives up his dream for the sake of love and does so willingly, I don't see it becoming a problem, unless the relationship takes a turn for the worse. We have a whole lifetime to pursue our dreams, but finding true love is a much harder task. If he gives up on a relationship before it even starts, he might regret it as much as he regrets not being able to have a chance to be with Aya.

You seem to equate Junpei's maturity with that of being with Tsukasa. In the beginning, Tsukasa was waiting for Junpei to lead her but because he was too slow (or rather, too indecisive), she took it upon herself to lead Junpei (which is a sign of her maturity). While the first statement is true in a sense, people do not really mature because of who they're with. People mature because of their collective experiences- we are creatures of habit, after all. The experiences one goes through causes you to change your perceptions regarding your surroundings and you form your own convictions and beliefs- your moral backbone, so to speak. Being with a person can facilitate this and Junpei being with Tsukasa will most probably take him through experiences that he hasn't had with any of the other girls (that's certainly true right now) which will cause him to mature but how can you say that this won't be the case if he ends up with Aya, Satsuki, or Kozue? Each girl offers a different set of experiences that will take Junpei further along in his personal growth. I think he actually stands a greater chance of growing if he ends up with Aya because, from the start, he has to take charge of (i.e., lead, be responsible for) that relationship. Taking responsibility for something is a sure indication of personal growth. Besides, people do not mature overnight so it will take a while for Junpei to catch up to Tsukasa.

Of course Junpei will mature no matter which girl he ends up with, but I believe that being with Tsukasa would be a good path to follow because of how their relationship has been. If Junpei is able to realize how Tsukasa has always been the one leading their relationship, he might be able to make their relationship a stronger one. If he can realize this and realize what he's put her through, he can make the decision to fix all the damage he's done and regain her affection. I think taking the responsibility for Tsukasa's pain and trying to heal that would also lead Junpei into great personal growth. But this doesn't take into account the hurt he's caused for the other girls, although I believe the hurt he's caused Tsukasa is much more than say Satsuki's or Aya's, since most of the damage done to Tsukasa was direct (IE. saying she's irreplaceable when he still thinks of Aya and other things regarding Aya).


Also, I think most people (well, Westerners actually), think Aya is weak. I, being SE Asian, do not think so. Aya is actuall a strong person to be able to hold on to her feelings for oner person for such a long time (even with Amachi hovering in the background) plus she has her own dreams that she's pursuing. She is as deeply comitted as is Tsukasa- their only difference is that Tsukasa is an extrovert while Aya is introverted. She is still very self-concious and self-deprecating but that is probably because she just started on her own self-discovery (and also partly to the way she was raised- just look at her younger bother). Also, if you look at CH68 (when they got lost in the storm) and CH115 (when Junpei and Aya enden up in a storeroom in school after a downpour), Aya is willing to have Junpei lead her to new experiences which means she trusts him (she is probably the only character that trusts Junpei explicitly). I know that these are extreme examples but it gets the point across. Even Tsukasa doesn't have this level of trust (else, why should she be worried). It can be argued that Tsukasa was willing to go all the way with Junpei but how can you say that Aya is not? She may be just waiting for Junpei to lead her. And what's wrong with that?

Yes, I can agree that Aya is a strong person to be able to hold onto her feelings for Junpei this long, but that's also a negative because she wasn't strong enough to declare these feelings. It can also be said that Tsukasa is stronger because she was able to hold onto her feelings even after realizing Junpei's feelings for Aya, after breaking up the relationship, and up into the rekindling of it. Although, I'm not sure if she'll be able to hold onto these feelings after this chapter, but I hope she can.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with waiting for someone to lead you into new directions and experiences. But because we both know that Junpei isn't all that mature, we can't say that if Aya and Junpei became a couple, that he'd be able to lead the relationship into a good direction. As you said, self-discovery is important, but Aya and Junpei are both just starting this journey, while it can be said that Tsukasa is quite a ways ahead of the two. Wouldn't it be better that Junpei be with someone who knows themself well enough to be able to lead Junpei into his journey of self-discovery?

Tsukasa's trust issues stem from the fact that she knew herself well enough to know that Junpei had feelings for Aya. It's because of Junpei that she has this trust issue when it comes to him, but although this exists, she still can pursue him. Now Tsukasa's trust in Junpei is going to be even harder to regain because of what he has done in this chapter, but he can only start to fix things if he chooses Tsukasa.

Also, it was because of Aya that Junpei got together with Tsukasa. He wasn't even interested in her if not for the strawberry panties incident. So, it's all connected.

It's true that it was because of Aya that Junpei became interested in Tsukasa, but that doesn't mean he has to be with Aya. There are many relationships that have started because of feelings for someone else that have lasted and become much more (Guy falls for one of two sisters, doesn't work out, falls for other sister and has a lasting, loving relationship).

Unless he does something about it, Junpei will always have lingering feelings for Aya because he fell in love with her first (even while he was going out with Tsukasa at that point). He was ready to break-up with Tsukasa becuase of this but things started to get in the way. His feelings are very strong because he fell for Aya for the right reasons- not her looks but her personality. Unless he resolves this and find out that they're not compatible (for argument's sake), his relationship with Tsukasa will never succeed.

He also began to like Tsukasa for who she is also, but yes, unless he resolves his feelings for Aya, nothing good will come about for a Tsukasa/Junpei pairing.

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2005, 09:07:10 PM »
Had to cut the post in half because it said it exceeded the character limit.

The same can be said for Satsuki. In the end, Junpei has hurt all of them (including Aya, remember CH149?).

Yes, Junpei has hurt all of them, but I believe the person he hurt the most was Tsukasa. They were a couple and she began to fall for him, even though she knew of his feelings for Aya. Their relationship has been built up the most, but also been hurt the most because of this. Everytime he does something right for this relationship, someone comes along that makes him screw it up again. With the other girls, although he hurt them, it's not because he was with them and lied to them, but because they never had him to begin with. From what I remember, he never told Satsuki that he had feelings for her, but she kept on pushing, even after he told her about Tsukasa. Satsuki shoudl have been prepared for the hurt, since she chose to pursue him still. With Aya, she never directly declared her feelings for Junpei, so even if he knew her feelings through other people, he shouldn't have to be wary of her always.

While it is true that Tsukasa first noticed Junpei when he was punished for arguing with a teacher, she also said that she forgot the incident shortly afterwards (because of exams, I think). Only when he confessed to her in the playground did she remember who Junpei was.

Again, I ask the question: why can't Junpei mature with another girl besides Tsukasa?

Even if she had forgotten the incident shortly afterwards, she remembered during the confession, which is why she gave him a chance. So in effect, although seeing Aya on that rooftop was the catalyst for the relationship with Tsukasa, if not for how Junpei was back then, Tsukasa wouldn't have known who he was, and would have turned him down.

There's no reason why Junpei can't mature with another girl, but after all that Tsukasa and Junpei have been through together, wouldn't it be fitting to have them mature together, rather than apart? I think if the manga is coming to a close, the ending would be so much better if Junpei ended up with Tsukasa, because of how much they've been through. They've been able to build their relationship through hard times, and I think it would work better since he can finally show Tsukasa the happiness she deserves.

Birthdays and calendar events don't count. I'm talking of little things like just calling her up once in a while (this is one of Tsukasa's pet peeves about Junpei) or just doing something nice out of the blue (like inviting her out for a movie). We see none of these little things that do a lot in building a relationship.

Whether or not is some special day, his thoughtfulness and ability to care are shown through those events. Sure he's not good at the little things, but many people aren't either. If he ever becomes a proper boyfriend for Tsukasa, I'm sure he'd begin to do more of those little things that show he cares.

Found a great example of Junpei's thoughtfulness and caring that does not coincide with a birthday/holidyay: In chapter 60 after Junpei has successfully escaped Oumi High with Tsukasa, he confronts the large group of guys that always followed Tsukasa around. He tells them to stop following her around because of the trouble it causes her and gets beat up for doing so. So even though, he does not have the attentiveness for the little things now, he certainly has the capability to.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2005, 12:56:26 AM »
We'll just have to agree to disagree, then. You're thinking too much like a westerner to let go of your views. Ultimately, Tsukasa is just a plot device to get Aya and Junpei together. Oh, and about Chapter 60, what about Chapter 16, Chapter 19, Chapter 35, Chapter 45-46, Chapter 67, Chapter 87, Chapter 95, Chapter 115, and Chapter 126? Manaka always figures into these "incidents" that make the girls fall for him a little more- it's not just Tsukasa, mind you. If you want something really significant, look at the entire Yui arc.

Quote
You're right that if Junpei's dream is taken away, a break-up is eventual, but if Junpei gives up his dream for the sake of love and does so willingly, I don't see it becoming a problem, unless the relationship takes a turn for the worse. We have a whole lifetime to pursue our dreams, but finding true love is a much harder task. If he gives up on a relationship before it even starts, he might regret it as much as he regrets not being able to have a chance to be with Aya.

Ah. I see you've read my fan-fiction. Anyway, let me enlighten you. Giving up your dream for another person is just plain stupid- only idealistic young people think this. The truth is, love is fragile- no amount of hard work and effort  can make it work if both parties are not on the same page (case-in-point, Junpei and Tsukasa) while attaining your dreams is entirely up to you. Junpei said it himself in Chapter 95: "No matter what, following my own dreams is my most important goal. I'm doing what I want to do the most and no one can make me think otherwise." This position hasnt changed even over the next 66 chapters. What makes you think he'll change his mind now? Just to hold on to Tsukasa? If he was serious about Tsukasa, he wouldn't be dilly-dalying at the end of Chapter 151 and he wouldn't have let the news that Aya actually has harbored feelings for him affect his relationship with Tsukasa. It's a relationship doomed from the start.

Quote
Of course Junpei will mature no matter which girl he ends up with, but I believe that being with Tsukasa would be a good path to follow because of how their relationship has been. If Junpei is able to realize how Tsukasa has always been the one leading their relationship, he might be able to make their relationship a stronger one. If he can realize this and realize what he's put her through, he can make the decision to fix all the damage he's done and regain her affection. I think taking the responsibility for Tsukasa's pain and trying to heal that would also lead Junpei into great personal growth. But this doesn't take into account the hurt he's caused for the other girls, although I believe the hurt he's caused Tsukasa is much more than say Satsuki's or Aya's, since most of the damage done to Tsukasa was direct (IE. saying she's irreplaceable when he still thinks of Aya and other things regarding Aya).

I think Junpei already relalized this. Re-read Chapter 150- when he talks about his self-confidence issues when he's with Tsukasa. Also, quite early in the manga, Junpei has acknowledged his lack of action several times. This is what he's trying to do currently but failing because he still has this unresolved issue with Aya. Taking the responsibility for someone's pain is just a guilt trip and Junpei will be in the same boat that he was in when he and Tsukasa first started out. In order for their relationship to succeed, three things must happen: 1. Junpei clears up the issue with Aya, 2. Tsukasa has to forgive Junpei of EVERYTHING- they both forget about the past and start over (I'm talking clean slate here) and 3. Tsukasa has to give up on her dream of becoming a pastry chef (remember that Junpei does not have finances to go to Paris to be with Tsukasa).

Quote
Yes, I can agree that Aya is a strong person to be able to hold onto her feelings for Junpei this long, but that's also a negative because she wasn't strong enough to declare these feelings. It can also be said that Tsukasa is stronger because she was able to hold onto her feelings even after realizing Junpei's feelings for Aya, after breaking up the relationship, and up into the rekindling of it. Although, I'm not sure if she'll be able to hold onto these feelings after this chapter, but I hope she can.

What's wrong with not openly declaring your feelings? I certainly don't declare my feelings openly but that didn't stop me from finding love, getting married and starting a family. What's wrong with Junpei finally becoming a man, taking the risk and take the first step for a change? I think this is where it's leading up to.

Aya's strength comes from her trust of Junpei. That is probably the strongest bond there is. You can only find this in people who have shared something meaningful. For Junpei and Aya, it's a shared dream. This is what Junpei and Tsukasa lack- something meaningful that they can call their own. Right now, all they have are common experiences. Tsukasa realizes this and that is why she is trying so hard (staring from Chapter 123) to find something that she and Junpei can share together. This is probably the reason why Tsukasa is willing to have sex with Junpei.

Quote
There's absolutely nothing wrong with waiting for someone to lead you into new directions and experiences. But because we both know that Junpei isn't all that mature, we can't say that if Aya and Junpei became a couple, that he'd be able to lead the relationship into a good direction. As you said, self-discovery is important, but Aya and Junpei are both just starting this journey, while it can be said that Tsukasa is quite a ways ahead of the two. Wouldn't it be better that Junpei be with someone who knows themself well enough to be able to lead Junpei into his journey of self-discovery?

But look at Junpei's track record- he always does the right thing when the situation arises because his intentions are good. Also, Junpei and Aya already share a common goal. If they would just focus on that, the rest should come into it's own because they are already on the same path. Tsukasa is just too much ahead (in terms of maturity) for Junpei to catch up. In the end, the relationship will probably cause Tsukasa major emotional burn-out.

Quote
It's true that it was because of Aya that Junpei became interested in Tsukasa, but that doesn't mean he has to be with Aya. There are many relationships that have started because of feelings for someone else that have lasted and become much more (Guy falls for one of two sisters, doesn't work out, falls for other sister and has a lasting, loving relationship).

In that same vein, I could argue that Junpei should be with Yui or Kozue.

Quote
Yes, Junpei has hurt all of them, but I believe the person he hurt the most was Tsukasa. They were a couple and she began to fall for him, even though she knew of his feelings for Aya. Their relationship has been built up the most, but also been hurt the most because of this. Everytime he does something right for this relationship, someone comes along that makes him screw it up again. With the other girls, although he hurt them, it's not because he was with them and lied to them, but because they never had him to begin with. From what I remember, he never told Satsuki that he had feelings for her, but she kept on pushing, even after he told her about Tsukasa. Satsuki shoudl have been prepared for the hurt, since she chose to pursue him still. With Aya, she never directly declared her feelings for Junpei, so even if he knew her feelings through other people, he shouldn't have to be wary of her always.

Even if she had forgotten the incident shortly afterwards, she remembered during the confession, which is why she gave him a chance. So in effect, although seeing Aya on that rooftop was the catalyst for the relationship with Tsukasa, if not for how Junpei was back then, Tsukasa wouldn't have known who he was, and would have turned him down.

There's no reason why Junpei can't mature with another girl, but after all that Tsukasa and Junpei have been through together, wouldn't it be fitting to have them mature together, rather than apart? I think if the manga is coming to a close, the ending would be so much better if Junpei ended up with Tsukasa, because of how much they've been through. They've been able to build their relationship through hard times, and I think it would work better since he can finally show Tsukasa the happiness she deserves.

This is the difference between growing up in the East and in the West. Most westerners like it neatly spelled out while most of us easterners can detect subtlety. That is why you like Tsukasa and care for her. As for me, I find her quite annoying and would much rather root for Kozue.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 02:54:46 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2005, 09:29:35 PM »
We'll just have to agree to disagree, then. You're thinking too much like a westerner to let go of your views.

You're right, I shouldn't be trying to examine the characters and story with my western views. After all, this is a Japanese manga. Even though my personality is somewhat like an easterner, I've been raised in the west. My parent's are full Filipino's and I was born in California, so even though my parents parenting was eastern in nature, spending my formative years in the United States has shaped my mind the way it is.

Ultimately, Tsukasa is just a plot device to get Aya and Junpei together. Oh, and about Chapter 60, what about Chapter 16, Chapter 19, Chapter 35, Chapter 45-46, Chapter 67, Chapter 87, Chapter 95, Chapter 115, and Chapter 126? Manaka always figures into these "incidents" that make the girls fall for him a little more- it's not just Tsukasa, mind you. If you want something really significant, look at the entire Yui arc.

Yeah, ultimately Tsukasa is a plot device for an Aya and Junpei pairing, but I see part of myself in Junpei, and since my preference in girls is towards a Tsukasa-type, I'd much rather see them together, instead of Junpei/Aya. If Aya and Junpei had as much development as he had with Tsukasa, I'd probably wouldn't feel so strongly for a Tsukasa/Junpei pairing.

Ah. I see you've read my fan-fiction. Anyway, let me enlighten you. Giving up your dream for another person is just plain stupid- only idealistic young people think this. The truth is, love is fragile- no amount of hard work and effort  can make it work if both parties are not on the same page (case-in-point, Junpei and Tsukasa) while attaining your dreams is entirely up to you. Junpei said it himself in Chapter 95: "No matter what, following my own dreams is my most important goal. I'm doing what I want to do the most and no one can make me think otherwise." This position hasnt changed even over the next 66 chapters. What makes you think he'll change his mind now? Just to hold on to Tsukasa? If he was serious about Tsukasa, he wouldn't be dilly-dalying at the end of Chapter 151 and he wouldn't have let the news that Aya actually has harbored feelings for him affect his relationship with Tsukasa. It's a relationship doomed from the start.

Well, I'm going to turn 20 in about a month and I am quite idealistic. To be honest, I don't have a solid dream the way the characters of the manga do, which is probably why I don't see a problem in giving up a dream for the sake of having a relationship with someone. I'm still quite unsure of what I want to do in life, but what I do know is that having a significant other would be enough until I know what I want to do.

I think Junpei already relalized this. Re-read Chapter 150- when he talks about his self-confidence issues when he's with Tsukasa. Also, quite early in the manga, Junpei has acknowledged his lack of action several times. This is what he's trying to do currently but failing because he still has this unresolved issue with Aya. Taking the responsibility for someone's pain is just a guilt trip and Junpei will be in the same boat that he was in when he and Tsukasa first started out. In order for their relationship to succeed, three things must happen: 1. Junpei clears up the issue with Aya, 2. Tsukasa has to forgive Junpei of EVERYTHING- they both forget about the past and start over (I'm talking clean slate here) and 3. Tsukasa has to give up on her dream of becoming a pastry chef (remember that Junpei does not have finances to go to Paris to be with Tsukasa).

I agree with points 1 and 2, but point 3 isn't a solid one in my mind. If they succeed at points 1 and 2, then point 3 is irrelevant. They can still have a successful relationship even if they are apart. Of course it'll be much harder, but it's not a requirement that they always be around each other. They were able to build up a relationship after the first breakup even though they did not see or speak to each other daily.

What's wrong with not openly declaring your feelings? I certainly don't declare my feelings openly but that didn't stop me from finding love, getting married and starting a family. What's wrong with Junpei finally becoming a man, taking the risk and take the first step for a change? I think this is where it's leading up to.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with not openly declaring your feelings, its just that if you don't and you want a relationship with that person, then it will be much harder to do. When you know that someone is interested in you, you tend to become interested as well, but if you're left wondering because you weren't given a declaration, then there's a higher chance of nothing happening.

Aya's strength comes from her trust of Junpei. That is probably the strongest bond there is. You can only find this in people who have shared something meaningful. For Junpei and Aya, it's a shared dream. This is what Junpei and Tsukasa lack- something meaningful that they can call their own. Right now, all they have are common experiences. Tsukasa realizes this and that is why she is trying so hard (staring from Chapter 123) to find something that she and Junpei can share together. This is probably the reason why Tsukasa is willing to have sex with Junpei.

You're absolutely right.

But look at Junpei's track record- he always does the right thing when the situation arises because his intentions are good. Also, Junpei and Aya already share a common goal. If they would just focus on that, the rest should come into it's own because they are already on the same path. Tsukasa is just too much ahead (in terms of maturity) for Junpei to catch up. In the end, the relationship will probably cause Tsukasa major emotional burn-out.

Didn't some of the recent chapter spoilers say something about Aya deciding to go a different college because of how well she scored in the cram school? If anything, they're beginning to diverge again.

Junpei is already close to putting the final nail in the Tsukasa/Junpei relationship coffin. Unless he does something drastic in chapter 152, she might finally give up, which is not what I would like to see.

In that same vein, I could argue that Junpei should be with Yui or Kozue.

You could, but we both know that it's really between Aya and Tsukasa.

This is the difference between growing up in the East and in the West. Most westerners like it neatly spelled out while most of us easterners can detect subtlety. That is why you like Tsukasa and care for her. As for me, I find her quite annoying and would much rather root for Kozue.

You're right. I'd much rather have a story where most of the loose ends are tied, with only a few left open for debate (or sequels), but that doesn't mean I can't handle a story where you are expected to give the ending some thought. It's just that I feel that Aya and Junpei's relationship should be built up some more in order to make it feel right to me.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2005, 09:53:20 PM »
Heh. I knew there was something familiar about the way you presented your arguments. I hope you still remember some Tagalog. I was born and raised in the Philippines myself. My parents are from Ilo-ilo (Visayas) but I'm 100% Manilenyo :D. I came here 10 years ago (New York) as systems engineer and now reside in Woodbridge, NJ with my wife (and soon, two kids :D).

Now as for your other points:

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I agree with points 1 and 2, but point 3 isn't a solid one in my mind. If they succeed at points 1 and 2, then point 3 is irrelevant. They can still have a successful relationship even if they are apart. Of course it'll be much harder, but it's not a requirement that they always be around each other. They were able to build up a relationship after the first breakup even though they did not see or speak to each other daily.

Depends on how strong their relationship is. Distance puts a very great strain on a relationship (trust me, I know ;)). Compunding this is that they are on different continents- it's not like they can just hop on the next red-eye or Greyhound (or whatever they have in Japan) and go see each other. If they are just starting out and Tsukasa decides to go to France, everything will be against them. It will be hard especially on Tsukasa because of her she does have trust issues. There's an old saying that it takes time to build trust, an instant to destroy it and possibly a lifetime rebuilding it.

Quote
You're right. I'd much rather have a story where most of the loose ends are tied, with only a few left open for debate (or sequels), but that doesn't mean I can't handle a story where you are expected to give the ending some thought. It's just that I feel that Aya and Junpei's relationship should be built up some more in order to make it feel right to me.

Well, it is a manga aimed at young readers and I empathize with you. I also feel like parts of the story reflect my life and that is why I have taken a great interest in it. In my lifetime, I've been with an 'Aya', a 'Tsuaksa', and a 'Satsui' (in that order). I eventually ended up with a 'Kozue' :D. Lastly, I don't think their relationship can be built up any longer. It's time for them to face the music, admit their feelings to one another and finally figure out if they belong together.

Offline iodoethane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2005, 10:10:21 PM »
Bleh not going to read thru all those awfully long posts (sorry pple ^^) but yeah for Asians! :D

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2005, 10:40:50 PM »
Heh. I knew there was something familiar about the way you presented your arguments. I hope you still remember some Tagalog. I was born and raised in the Philippines myself. My parents are from Ilo-ilo (Visayas) but I'm 100% Manilenyo :D. I came here 10 years ago (New York) as systems engineer and now reside in Woodbridge, NJ with my wife (and soon, two kids :D).

I was never really taught any Tagalog. I just learned from listening to my parents, other family, and random Filipinos around town. I'm not capable of writing in it, nor do I have a huge vocabulary, but I know enough to be able to speak to all my relatives in Tagalog, if need be. My parents are from Cavite (Mom - Amadeo, Dad - Noveleta). Your English is great for a non-native, I could have mistaken you for an English major, especially with your great fanfics. ;) Congrats on the soon to be two kids! Do you know their genders yet?

Depends on how strong their relationship is. Distance puts a very great strain on a relationship (trust me, I know ;)). Compunding this is that they are on different continents- it's not like they can just hop on the next red-eye or Greyhound (or whatever they have in Japan) and go see each other. If they are just starting out and Tsukasa decides to go to France, everything will be against them. It will be hard especially on Tsukasa because of her she does have trust issues. There's an old saying that it takes time to build trust, an instant to destroy it and possibly a lifetime rebuilding it.

I'm well aware of the strain distance puts on relationships, my father is in the Navy, and we've had our fair share of years without him when he gets stationed aboard a ship. Anyway, I've had friends who have had long distance relationships in high school where seeing each other was rare, and they've made it through just fine. I know being on different continents is very very different to not having transportation, but in today's day and age, with computers, phones, and web cams, they could still "see" each other. It might not be much, but it would still be something.

If it is possible that they end up together, and they are just starting out, they could both take a year off from their dreams to build their relationship. It's not as extreme as giving up their dreams, so if they were able to decide something like that and build a strong relationship, having that eventual long distance relationship wouldn't be as hard.

Well, it is a manga aimed at young readers and I empathize with you. I also feel like parts of the story reflect my life and that is why I have taken a great interest in it. In my lifetime, I've been with an 'Aya', a 'Tsuaksa', and a 'Satsui' (in that order). I eventually ended up with a 'Kozue' :D. Lastly, I don't think their relationship can be built up any longer. It's time for them to face the music, admit their feelings to one another and finally figure out if they belong together.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Since I'm still quite young, I hope that I can find an "Aya", a "Tsukasa", a "Satsuki", and a "Kozue." They all have their respective appealing character traits and just having experiences with them would surely make my life quite interesting.

I realize that Junpei and Aya's relationship has reached a point where it's now or never, especially since the manga has gone back and forth so much already, but after rooting for Tsukasa for so long with all her build up, it's just hard for me to accept Junpei ending up with Aya.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 10:42:20 PM by ilal2ielli »

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2005, 11:23:48 PM »
I was never really taught any Tagalog. I just learned from listening to my parents, other family, and random Filipinos around town. I'm not capable of writing in it, nor do I have a huge vocabulary, but I know enough to be able to speak to all my relatives in Tagalog, if need be. My parents are from Cavite (Mom - Amadeo, Dad - Noveleta). Your English is great for a non-native, I could have mistaken you for an English major, especially with your great fanfics. ;) Congrats on the soon to be two kids! Do you know their genders yet?

You can blame that (my english) on television :D. Plus, I was always the odd-man-out, even during my school years- I was told I had good english for an engineering major. Go figure. As for the kids, they're named Caitlin Ayame (Aya) and Genevieve Hikari (Kari). Yep, identical twin girls. Nope, the manga didn't have anything to do with Aya's name- my wife actually picked it from an episode of INU_YASHA (I forget which one).

I'm well aware of the strain distance puts on relationships, my father is in the Navy, and we've had our fair share of years without him when he gets stationed aboard a ship. Anyway, I've had friends who have had long distance relationships in high school where seeing each other was rare, and they've made it through just fine. I know being on different continents is very very different to not having transportation, but in today's day and age, with computers, phones, and web cams, they could still "see" each other. It might not be much, but it would still be something.

If it is possible that they end up together, and they are just starting out, they could both take a year off from their dreams to build their relationship. It's not as extreme as giving up their dreams, so if they were able to decide something like that and build a strong relationship, having that eventual long distance relationship wouldn't be as hard.

Like I said, they would have to have an exceptionally strong bond. Tsukasa would have to bear most of the emotional strain as she has to overcome more than three years of anxiety and uncertainty far from the one she loves (i.e. physically alone). Although things like e-mail, telephone calls, and videophones somewhat make up for the distance, nothing beats sitting next to the one you love- it's just the sense of security that you get knowing that they're nearby.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? Since I'm still quite young, I hope that I can find an "Aya", a "Tsukasa", a "Satsuki", and a "Kozue." They all have their respective appealing character traits and just having experiences with them would surely make my life quite interesting.

I realize that Junpei and Aya's relationship has reached a point where it's now or never, especially since the manga has gone back and forth so much already, but after rooting for Tsukasa for so long with all her build up, it's just hard for me to accept Junpei ending up with Aya.

Heh. I'm well past my thirties. And don't worry- it'll come. I never intended my life to have been the way it's been but I've got no compliants- even the bad parts have their place and meaning. And you're right. Each one was a different nationality and it really opened my eyes to how different cultures behave and I am eternally grateful for those experiences. Ultimately, I fell back on one that I felt most comfortable with, a Filipina.

I think, aside from strawberry panties, the manga deals with different kinds of love:

Aya represents the ideal romantic love (like the ones realized in the great classics such as 'Wuthering Heights' and 'Sense and Sensibility')- the kind that is quiet, patient,  gentle and trusting. The kind that reveals itself with time and willing to let the other person go but still hold on to the vaguest hope.

Tsukasa represents the intense 'first time/exploratory' love that typifies teenagers. This does, in no way, diminish Tsukasa's feelings for they are indeed real. She has proven this by actively taking the lead in their relationship and has risked her emotional well-being in order to be with Junpei so she also represents the selfless, self-sacrificing love. However, she is also there to remind us that no matter how hard we work for the affections of the one we love, sometimes, it just isn't meant to be (well, this is relative if things don't work out with Junpei).

Satsuki represent that passionate kind of love when you loose yourself to your feelings. Love does make us do stupid things for the sake of the other person. The sad thing is, if Satsuki had not become so agressive, I think she would have been the one Junpei picked out of the bunch.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 12:24:04 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline Ariel

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 151 RAW discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2005, 12:12:29 AM »
You can blame that (my english) on television :D. Plus, I was always the odd-man-out, even during my school years- I was told I had good english for an engineering major. Go figure. As for the kids, they're named Caitlin Ayame (Aya) and Genevieve Hikari (Kari). Yep, identical twin girls. Nope, the manga didn't have anything to do with Aya's name- my wife actually picked it from an episode of INU_YASHA (I forget which one).

Ah television... that's why I have bad eyesight. ;) Very interesting names (in a good way). I think having a Japanese name for a middle name is very unique.

Like I said, they would have to have an exceptionally strong bond. Tsukasa would have to bear most of the emotional strain as she has to overcome more than three years of anxiety and uncertainty. Although things like e-mail, telephone calls, and videophones somewhat make up for the distance, nothing beats sitting next to the one you love- it's just the sense of security that you get knowing that they're nearby.

Very true, sitting next to the one you love has a great calming effect.

The sad thing is, if Satsuki had not become so agressive, I think she would have been the one Junpei picked out of the bunch.

I couldn't agree more. They had basically everything in common and had a great friendship to start things with. Not a great first meeting, but a funny one to tell the kids, if they ended up together, that is.