Author Topic: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion  (Read 5418 times)

Offline AmbiDextrose

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*** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« on: March 21, 2005, 07:53:11 AM »
Please forgive me if you've seen this post on another forum.

I've been trying to transltate Chapter 149 on my own. It's been slow goings since I've only started to learn Nihingo about four weeks ago. I'm still weak on Kanji and my vocabulary sucks but three things stood out to me in 149 that I hope someone with better translation skills can verify:


1. On page 5, the exchange between Tsukasa and Jinpei goes like:
  TN: zutte zutte dai suki da kare
     for a long, long time big like boyfriend
       I've liked you for a really long time, Junpei.

  JM: nishino no koto suki dayo
     nishino thing like
       I've liked nishino, too. (not really sure if this should be past or present tense)

  TN: honto?
      Really?

  JM: honto
     Really.

  JM: ore wo mistumeru nishino karen totono ta kao na
    I stare at nishino cute good-looking face
      When I look into Nishino's face and realize how beautiful she is. . . (I think there should be a . . . here because the next thought bubble feels like a continuation)
 

2. On page 6, Junpei says something like:
  JM:tamani ore ni jishin wo naku saserun da
    occasionally I self-confidence  to cry to make someone
      Sometimes, she just makes me loose my self-confidence.

I think Junpei still feels nervous around Tsukasa, eventhough they've been back together for sometime (I think that's what Junpei said to Aya on page 16) now because he's still wondering why Tsukasa likes him. And, for heaven's sake, why can't he look at Tsukasa when he's saying he likes her?

         
3. On page 15, it seems that Junpei is coming to the realization that anything more than friendship with Aya was not meant to be.

Could anybody please verify/dispute these findings? Oh, and I'd also appreciate a lesson in Nihongo :D. . . .

In the end Aya was hurt becasue she found out that Junpei was back together with Tsukasa. Being the self-deprecating person that she is, she's probably blaming herself, and she's probably right in doing so. We still don't know what the full impact of Tsukasa's realization that Aya has liked Junpei for a very long time. Although it looked like Junpei re-assured her that he liked her (at this point) I don't think that was enough for Tsukasa'a peace of mind because she does have a tendency to over-think things. Lastly, Aya's last statement as she was running away (into Misuzu)- I think she was questioning why this thing between her and Junpei keeps happening. Is she starting to come to the same realization as Junpei? I guess well find out when CH 150 comes out.

The final question that needs to be asked is: how will Junpei react when he realizes that Aya has liked him all this time and that she is still available.

Oh, and it seems Satsuki will try to break up Junpei and Tsukasa that same day before he meets up with Tsukasa.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 06:16:49 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline saithan

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2005, 04:43:19 AM »
Doh, you've only had Japanese classes for 4 weeks and you can already read that much, dang how intensive is the class ?????

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 06:00:47 AM »
Hmmm? I'm just studying by myself using Marc Bernabe's book plus I have a few friends who know Japanese and have lived in Japan for seversl years (my soundingboards, so to speak).

Offline FinalShowdown

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2005, 08:55:16 AM »
Im about to go to bed, so ill just do the first one....

zuttO zuttO daisuki da karA

basicly ive always liked you alot.

zutto zutto being basicly always, and daisuki, well thats a bit complicated as in well suki just by it self basicly alot of times means who you romanticly like umm like. And daisuki although more litteraly meaning to like a lot or something of that nature, is more about as close to saying I love you as you can with out acctauly saying it. shrug

o.. ore mo nishino no koto... suki...dayo

basicly just saying that he to has always liked her.

and then the last one with the contiunation is something along the lines of...

i have to prepare myself when i stare/gaze at nishinos sweet/cute face as occasionaly I lose all my self confidence.....

errrrrrrr something along those lines lol. My japanese isnt that good ethier.


anyway umm yea thats all cuz im going to bed.. though ummmm you do realize there is a thread about 149 just a couple slots down. Shrug dun see the reason to have 2.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 08:58:12 AM by FinalShowdown »

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 09:25:26 AM »
Hey! Would ya look at that! I actually translated something correctly! Anyway, I think zutto means 'for a long time' so 'zutto zutto' would mean 'for a long, long time'.

Why not merge that thread here  ;D.

Offline JaisBane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2005, 10:17:59 AM »
For only studying Japanese for a month, that's not half bad, but you need to study hiragana more.  First off, Final is right on the first line.  Nishino says "zutto zutto daisuki dakara", which means "I've always loved you".  You can use "really liked" or "like you alot", but neither of those convey her seriousness.  In response Junpei says "o...ore mo...nishino no koto...suki...da yo."  It's important to remember the ellipses because it not only shows his embarassment, it also lets him skip certain grammatical points.  This means "I-I...like...you too...Nishino".  At the end I'll go into more depth on this statement because it can't really be translated directly into english.  You've got "hontou" down, so I'll skip that and go onto the next.  "Ore wo mitsumeru Nishino no karen de totonotta kao ha".  This says "When I'm look at Nishino's cutely arranged face...".  I know that sounds wierd, but that's what he says =/

In the continuation "tamani ore ni jishini wo naku saseru".  Naku here is the conjunctive form of nai (無い) which means "void", so the translation is "I sometimes lose all self-confidence".  And you got the gist of the rest of the page.

As for page 15, well on 16 he confirms his commitment with Tsukasa and 18 showcases Toujou's reaction better than words, so you can make your own conclusions because Junpei doesn't actually say anything regarding that.  

Now, onto the Nihongo lesson!  Today's lesson will be: Suki != Like.  This is something that most people never really stop to think about and will probably cause confusion when they read it.  Let me first justify my statement with a simple grammatical comparison, "Suki is an adjective, Like is a verb."  As students of a foreign language we oft turn to translating to further our understanding.  As translators we must maintain grammatical distinctions in our translations for the sake of accuracy.  Yet we will come across situations where there is a conceptual gap in english and we must sacrifice the integrity of the sentence in order to represent it in english.  In japanese you will frequently a construction similar to "anata no koto ga suki desu."  If we want to translate this a litterally as possible, it would read "I hold a fondness for your person."  But, wait!  Who the hell speaks like this in english?  The answer is no one, and so in this instance a direct translation changes the intent of the sentence and makes it unnatural.  While fondness is an adjective, it does not convey the same range of emotion that suki does.  The only word in english that does is "like" but like is not an adjective and using it can hinder our understanding of japanese.  Still, it is more important to deliver the author's message than it is to keep things grammatically accurate, so when translating we will often use the condition "Let suki = like" and go on with our work.
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Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2005, 03:24:00 PM »
JaisBane,

Thanks for the Nihingo lesson. Let's see if I can do direct translation on other (more difficult) sentence constructs for this issue. You're right- sometimes, I get confused with the romanizing the hiragana and katakana. I'm still trying to build up my vocabulary so that I can decipher where each work starts and ends. Thanks for claifying SUKI. The problem now is, how do I decipher intent?


Offline JaisBane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2005, 09:30:54 PM »
Context is one biggie, the other is word useage but that only comes with experience.  Just keep at it with a steady pace, if you try to do too much too early you'll only burn yourself out.  Exposure is the best way to learn, so if you even do something as little as watch a few raws and then watch the sub later, it'll be beneficial.  Study at least an hour a day, keep with simple sentence formats and stay away from indepth grammar discussions, they'll mostly confuse you and you'll probably use them wrong when you try.  That's about all the cliche advice I have for now.  Oh, a good resource for anything japanese is www.nihongoresources.com 
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Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2005, 10:48:04 PM »
JaisBane,

Thanks for the support. I wish I had someone like you guiding me when I first attempted to learn Nihingo on my own a few years ago.

Anyway, has anyone noticed that in the past few chapters (mainly after the third movie), the amount of ecchiness has significantly decreased and the dramatic moments have increased. Also, the pacing of the story seems to have slowed down- almost to the point of one day per chapter. Does anybody elase think that this means that things are coming to a turning point or a significant event?

Offline JaisBane

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 11:11:44 PM »
I certainly hope it is, this is god stuff and I'd be mighty mad if another reset popped up.
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Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 11:24:47 PM »
Oh, I'm right there with you on that, JaisBane. I would even hazard that maybe Ichigo 100% is winding down to it's final chapters. I doubt this will reach past their highschool graduation- and even that is a stretch.

One thing though is still bothering me- why DOES Tsukasa like Junpei? I've looked at all the material and I can't honestly say that there is one thread that binds Tsukasa and Junpei together. YOu may say:

1. The incident in 2nd year middle-school where Tsukasa cheered for Junpei

2. Tsukasa attibutes her maturity to being with Junpei

3. Junpei always manages to somehow rescue Tsukasa

But it still doesn't add up. With Aya, there is the novel and their shared goal. With Satsuki, he can be himself. With Yui, he shares a history of childhood memories. But what does he and Tsukasa have? I'm not trying to stir up a bees nest- I'm just puzzled as to what is the basis for Tsukasa's strong feelings towards Junpei. Maybe I should be looking at this from the point-of-view of someone who was raised in the West (since I think that's the audience Tsukasa was designed to appeal to), but Tsukasa's character was designed by a Japanese woman. Also, after the whole Nishino birthday and confession fiasco, there hasn't been much talk of Tsukasa's plans to go study abroad. Very curious.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 12:06:43 AM by AmbiDextrose »

Offline dEvIlDuDe

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 11:55:06 PM »
You guys should provide some kinda of notepad scripts to unscanlated chaps so some can catch up:p We dl the raws then we read the notepad(translated) scripts... hehe

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2005, 11:59:29 PM »
Hmmm? I'm kinda doing that but I'll need someone with better translation skills to proof it. Plus, I don't think I can post those here (part of the rules).

Offline Grahf

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2005, 05:35:13 AM »
there hasn't been much talk of Tsukasa's plans to go study abroad. Very curious.

Really I'm going to assume there hasn't been much talk about the other level of schooling.   There is still the whole Manaka and Aya possibly going to the same school, but if she has finally heard that Tsukasa is back in the picture........  Junpei and her always run into some problems some how.

Another thing I've been noticing every other character  has made some change throughout the series.  Mizuki has kept Aya's character the same.  Of course she changed her appearance and she talks to guys now, but she still is the same character pretty much.  There must be a reason for this decision for the direction of her character.  ??? Satsuki even dared to be just his "Best Friend", Tsukasa even decided to pursue her dreams and still have her faith in Junpei.  Seems to me that he wants to make Aya content on just writing movie scripts with Junpei.

I'm a big Aya fan but it from what I see.......... She will give up and quite possibly she might go to a different college. She does still have Amachi doesn't she?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 05:36:30 AM by Grahf »


G-thugin it up.

Offline AmbiDextrose

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Re: *** SPOILERS *** Chapter 149 RAW discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2005, 06:23:55 AM »
Well, if you're read this far and have seen the RAW scans, you'll know that (Please highlight with mouse to read) Aya IS going to a different school. She told this to Junpei as they were filming the third movie during one of their rehersals. Junpei was so disheartened when he heard ths that he left the room and curled up on the floor. So that possibility really exists. Although, I don't see Aya and Amachi hooking up- Satsuki and Amachi actually have a better chance together.