Author Topic: Board Management Discussion  (Read 18945 times)

Offline JaisBane

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Board Management Discussion
« on: March 16, 2005, 09:01:45 AM »
Alright, this is the thread where you can post any complaints, thoughts, suggestions, or any other sort of positive contribution on how this board should be run.  I want this to be a discussion based thread, so when you post please try to comment on what has been said before by adding your own unique contribution.  There should be no reitteration of what's been said before unless you have something to add to that arguments.  I will tolerate no flame, pwning, or any sort of negative/provacative post, they will be deleted the instant I see them. 

To start things off, I will post my response to the /Annex thread in here.  There are no personal attacks within that post, so please take the time to read it fully and contribute.  This is your chance speak on how you want things run, what you think doesn't work, and what new policies you would like to see implemented, so please make the most of it.

I would like to address the point that Ken made about Chuck choosing admins from people that he knows outside of the forums.  The only peope that are actively involved in the scanslation portion of Yanime are Motoko and I, and the only other person who is actively involved with IRC is Waya.  The rest came from the board like you guys and were approved for admin/mod status by the rest of the admins.  I will admit freely that I am an ass.  I have a large ego and I don't sugarcoat my words.  I am a very friendly person and so I rarely do anything that reflects genuine hostility.  Basically, I try to use the harsh method to get people to either stop and think or stfu and gtfo.  I do hope you realize that I am possibly the least power abusive mod here.  I don't lock topics, I don't edit people's posts, and I don't toss around my weight to get people to do as I want.  If I do any of those, it's because a serious infraction of the rules has occured or my own personal sense of ethics have been violated.  Before people start saying that the admins are abusive, I would like to see evidence of when we use our power for personal gain.

Now, to address the issue of strife in this forum.  There is this feeling that the people on here that come from IRC are better than the people that are only members of the boards, and this is mainly because IRC and the Staff have a much more intimate interaction with each other and closer relationships.  This is not right, but it's unavoidable.  We spend hours in the main and staff channels talking back and forth about anime, projects, life, what have you.  The IRC community is also much more playful and things like "pwning nubs" is seen as harmless and everyone participates in it.  If an op gets abusive, they get a good smack by one of the other ops and things fall back into place. 

Here there exists a division between the staff and forum members that we can call the cccnnn faction vs the angel faction.  While not everyone belongs to one of those, most of the incidents that arise here come from the angel faction doing something and the cccnnn faction pwning them and then the angel faction gets upset and a flame war starts.  When an admin intervenes, they get hasselled from one side for being too intrusive and from another for not acting sooner.  The truth is that there are many people on this forum that do stupid things (oft called nubs) and the act of pwning is meant to be a way of hazing those people for having a moment of idiocy.  If the person is truly a nub, the pwning will "ghost bust" them.  If they aren't, then they either have an epiphany and the idiocy is extinguished, or they use a reverse pwn and there is much laughter to be had. 

Here there is the unique situation where pwning neither extinguishes a nub nor corrects the idiocy.  The pwn is taken as a personal attack and the pwnee becomes viciously vociferous and very nearly violent about the incident (I hope you'll excuse my alliteration).  This becomes a very difficult situation to moderate because it is difficult to place the blame.  It is very easy to say that the pwner is at fault because they provoked the person, but the pwn itself is not flame and so it is possible to say that the pwnee is at fault for reacting to it improperly.  As a mod, I can't jump in and instantly lock any topic where this occurs in, nor can I start editing posts.  I can't edit the idiocy out of a post in order to prevent pwns, nor can I edit out a pwn just because someone might take it out of context, both users are well within their right to post those.    I can't control how users react to posts, to try to do so would be dictatorial.  What I can do is suggest that people lighten up and think about the reasons a person has for making a post before becoming upset.  Even if a post is malicious, if you ignore it then you stop the spread of flame and it makes it easier for a mod to deal with the person responsible.

As for admins "tearing up new users", either I'm completely blind and stupid, or you need to produce so evidence to back up your claim.  I have nothing against you personally, Kitsune, but it lends your post an element of credulity when you post examples as well.  I try to read as many posts here as I can, and at the moment I can't think of a single recent post where a new user was attacked.  Please enlighten me.
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Offline Judau

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2005, 09:13:31 AM »
Just something to add... if you have advice, that does NOT mean we need to use your advice. We will read over what you have said and if its decent, take it into consideration, but by no means will we follow blindly upon every piece of advice. This should be obvious, but I figure I better say it now rather than later.

Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2005, 09:14:17 AM »
To start things off yes I did read is post Judau. Sorry if I was acting like a noob, I am just stupid that way.

Okay I fully understand where you are coming from Jais and I think that these "factions" need to break up and start talking more to each other in nicer ways. It will make the board hella difficult to keep posting on if every single thread is about flmaing another person. I for one would love to stay on this board and continue to post.

Regarding IRC, I think maybe you guys should either promote more IRC usage (if you haven't already) or start talking more on here. Cause, I agree, when you get to know people very well it is very hard to get along with members that you never talk to. It is a growing issue that I think will end up dividing Yanime in the end if it continues.

The division between the staff and members is common among all forums. One of the major difference is because staff have stuff in common like discliplining members and what not so they have to talk to each which inturns leads to something like the IRC. When this happens it leaves the members in the dust which cause them to want them to avoid staff which in turns leads to division cause no one talks to each other.

If I don't make sense or if I just repeated something that Jais said let me know cause I have problems explaining so suggestions would be helpful if available.

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Offline Judau

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2005, 09:30:43 AM »
Right, about the "faction" issue... I've been hoping to get the IRC and forum members to act more as one entity for a while, its just difficult. Reason being where the respective members come from, or how they join yanime in the first place.

Most members on IRC join strictly for the scanslation side to yanime, they know what's going on with the current manga and site news, and we have many older, experienced staff members contributing on IRC. Overall most people talking on IRC are older, thus the conversations might be a little different than on the boards. That's not to say there are not idiots on IRC as well, its just easier to dismiss them and keep discussing.

On the boards, people come from friends talking about it or most likely google... just kind of at random. And not to put everyone into a stereotype, most board members are usually younger and less internet-experienced. Therefore, when some of the older IRC guys come and join the boards and meet younger, unexperienced members, they clash.

I think the only way around this is to try and get more of a common bond between the two... more board members need to join IRC and find out more about what yanime does besides the message board. More IRC members need to join the boards and meet the people, in general, who have been on yanime longer, since it was nothing.

I've tried to advertise on IRC here and there to come to the boards, but overall I feel they don't like message boards, period. Many refused to even try... especially with the rap the board already has for being childish... although I think its been better as of late, for sure. And I think the board members all just don't know how to use IRC (on a whole), so they won't come. Plus, many might post at school, which kind of rules out IRC.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2005, 09:36:53 AM by Judau »

Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2005, 09:41:05 AM »
True I totally agree, I also take pride in being part of the 2% who is not under the age of 18.

I originally joined because a friend asked me to and at the time I was totally inexperienced when it came to forums and scanlations. Now I think that you guys need to like talk about the scanlations more to those who do not participate in IRC. Cause for the longest time I had no clue what scanlations were nor did I ever want to find out. You talk about scanlations on the homepage and what not about what just came out but just posting a link and stating that this is the next chapter doesn't really help. I also do not see anything about "what is a scanlation?" in the FAQ board. Just a suggestion maybe you should post that in the FAQ board for those new users who have never heard of it before.

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Offline Judau

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2005, 09:46:15 AM »
Well I think most people who happen to get to yanime's main page probably are LOOKING for scanslations. Also, most of the specific Manga/Anime forums are now yanime scanslation boards, its just that few are probably visited by people who don't read them, so it just keeps these factions going. And no offense to the readers of the scanslations, but have you noticed some of the posts and threads in those forums? Many of them are terrible. They are just not "board type people"... they read the scanslations, which is great, but they cannot correctly post on a message board for their life.

But, maybe Motoko or CGoten can entertain they idea of further explaining the group, scanslations, whatever they feel needs explaining and put it on the main site somewhere to un-confuse people.

Offline Ruri

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2005, 09:49:40 AM »
True I totally agree, I also take pride in being part of the 2% who is not under the age of 18.

In my experience with forums...age doesn't really matter.  I think maturity plays a major part.  Someone can be young yet more mature than their age indicates.  Others can be older, however completely immature.

Their maturity, to an extent, affects the context of their post and how they're looked upon by others.

As for the board...I favor suggestions to get IRC and members on the board integrated.  It'd be nice to have more variety.  I suggest maybe posts should be moderated a bit more, but I think what admins and mods alike want is for members to post without admins/mods being so strict upon the content of their posts.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2005, 09:50:54 AM by Ruri »



Offline JaisBane

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2005, 09:50:49 AM »
That's actually a really good idea, Aoshi.  Most of the regular forums members are not involved with our scanslations so I doubt they ever check the main site.  I'll go put something like that in the FAQ boards right now.
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Offline Motoko-chan

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2005, 10:24:07 AM »
When I am not so busy, I'll ad on some stuff to the site about scanlations, and maybe link from the board.

I'll admit that some of the boards do seem kinda childish, but the forums are a different atmosphere. Of course, the IRC channel can be rather childish at times.

Part of the problem is that the boards and the channel have different purposes. I don't think it will be easy to bridge that without offending one or both sides.

I think there is room for both communities, and also for crossovers (like me), but perhaps we just need to work to make the boards better overall. That might get more crossovers than trying to change either place to fit a new direction.
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Offline Waffo

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2005, 01:22:48 PM »
Since we rarely ever get very mature members under the age of thirteen, why don't we ever enforce the rule of being thirteen or older to register?  Just wondering...


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Offline Motoko-chan

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2005, 01:43:08 PM »
Since we rarely ever get very mature members under the age of thirteen, why don't we ever enforce the rule of being thirteen or older to register?  Just wondering...

It is quite easy to fake your age. (I personally choose I'm under 13 when installing the shockwave plugin so it doesn't require me to provide my info) It really won't stop anyone who really wants to join.
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Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2005, 02:04:47 PM »
Then why was that rule made to begin with?

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Offline Motoko-chan

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2005, 02:39:14 PM »
I don't remember seeing the rule. Care to point me to where it is listed?
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Offline Aoshi101

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2005, 02:42:42 PM »
never mind I am getting confused now. *leaves*

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Offline Waffo

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Re: Board Management Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2005, 02:47:18 PM »
I saw it back when I registered to the boards, where you choose the I accept or not buttons.


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