Author Topic: On Manga Scanlation  (Read 11837 times)

Offline Motoko-chan

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On Manga Scanlation
« on: January 16, 2005, 10:15:35 PM »
Recently, in one of the other boards, someone was complaining about the slow pace of the scanlation for their favorite manga. I see this a lot, and felt I had to respond. I also felt I should place my message in a bit more public of a place for others to read and understand why things sometimes move so slow, or at least to understand what we as scanlation group members do.

I am leaving this thread open for comments, but please only post constructive comments. I will delete any comments that make no effort to inform or argue a point.



(Edited from orignal post:)

Quote
i did that and didn't find anything. which sucks because this place is very far behind, and it will be hell to wait for them to catch up (which will never happen).

....We scanlate because we like to do this. It is fun for us. If you don't like our release schedule, think we are too slow, etc, I am sorry. Perhaps you would like to help us out? the more people we have working, the faster we can work. If you pass our test for whatever you want to do, then you can see how much work goes into each chapter. We don't just slap text on an image. In our editing process we scan from a printed book, have someone knowledgable in the source language (usually Japanese, sometimes Chinese) translate the printed words into English and make what amounts to a script, someone else go over that script and fix any translation errors (we like our translations to be as accurate as possible, even if the grammar or spelling is sometimes off), another person who is good with Photoshop or a similar tool digitally clean up the scan and erase the text, putting in the English from the script, and yet another person to check the edit for major errors and to package the release. As you can see from the description, it is very involved and time-intensive.


Also, keep in mind that this is a hobby for most of us. We have a lot of other stuff we do outside of this, so we can't just devote all our energy to it. A lot of us are in school, others have jobs. Most of us have other things we do, like play games, participate in sports, live life, etc. I, for one, work full-time and am on-call 24/7, am in three different manga groups, code web stuff for side jobs.... Sometimes I sleep too. Most everyone else is this busy too.

So, please, think about us before you go off whining about how you don't like the way things are.


Edit: Fixed Typo.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2005, 07:08:01 PM by Motoko-chan »
Motoko-chan
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Offline AlphaUltima

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2005, 10:36:30 PM »
Fuck them all Motoko. Fuck them all.
Take in the good and DDOS attack the bad.
what's their defense?
"you guys are so slow"
"i need it bad like michael jackson needs boys"
"i'd learn japanese, BUT I'M SO LAZY!"
ergo, FUCK them all.

when is a threat ever constructive?

Offline Motoko-chan

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2005, 10:44:33 PM »
Um, I'm trying to counter stupidity with information. I am tempted to delete that post, but I will leave it as an example of what not to respond with.
Motoko-chan
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Offline JaisBane

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 11:42:43 AM »
I am leaving this threat open for comments, but please only post constructive comments. I will delete any comments that make no effort to inform or argue a point.

I think she meant "thread" there, Alpha.  A simple typo...
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Offline Motoko-chan

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 07:09:05 PM »
I am leaving this threat open for comments, but please only post constructive comments. I will delete any comments that make no effort to inform or argue a point.

I think she meant "thread" there, Alpha.  A simple typo...

Oops. Missed that. Fixed the typo. That's what I get for typing while I'm that tired.
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Offline jensern

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 04:20:49 PM »
HEYYY!!!!I just started reading manga 4 days ago! And i managed to catch up to Pretty Face and Ichigo 100%. Anyway, Ichigo 100% is really nice and i applaud your work. What's more, you're all doing it for yourself because you think of it as a hobby.....and you're also doing it for free!!NOw, ain't that nice. I saw the pages with colours...and it was like 'WOWWWWW'-totally cool~~. Um...i just wondered how did you all do  that....um...I mean are the coloured pages from the original manga ..or did you all(yanime) do it? They are beautifully done. If you're the ones doing it...is it possible for someone to teach me how to do it???And like you said, this just happens to be my new found hobby and perhaps after i learnt how to do it, I WILL HELP OUT!

Offline Cgoten

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2005, 09:29:39 AM »
Yeah, we have a few talented staff members who do the coloring. =)

But, I really doubt they have the time to teach you. =/

Offline jensern

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2005, 10:44:55 PM »
Aaww.....nevermind then. I'll try to learn it by myself.....thanks for replying anyway

Offline negitoro

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2005, 07:52:57 PM »
I noticed that not a whole lot of people have actually posted anything in this thread and I've had an opinion about this issue and I registered to actually put a reply in. I might get flamed for this but here goes ... please keep in mind that this isn't directed at Yanime specifically, but rather the subbing/scanning community in general.

Firstly, as a manga/anime fan, I do believe that scanlator/fansubbers provide an invaluable service to the community. Without them, the access to such materials would be far more limited than they are today. So I do think that regardless, everyone needs to provide their thanks to anyone who undertakes this sort of endeavor on behalf of the fan community.

However, I do see a trend of 'don't whine or else' arguments put forth by the groups themselves a lot and sometimes I think it has simply become a card they conveniently pull out to quell whiners and complainers. It's become to a point where I think certain groups simply brandish it with disreagrd to their own fanbase. There simply needs to be a more balanced perspective. In some cases, groups need to re-evaluate their own dedication to the projects they've chosen to undertake, regardless if the intent was to appease themselves or the fan community.

I like reading my manga quickly. I don't think I'm alone in that respect. It's simply human nature - you always want MORE and you always want it NOW. Why defer enjoyment when you can have instant gratification ? This is especially true when you deal with something you enjoy so much, such as, in this case, manga. With a series, quite often, readers reach the end of the current translated run and then desire more, to find out what happens next - it's a very natural reaction. No one likes to be left hanging in suspense indefinitely.

The reason why most people turned to scan groups to begin with is that their access to the original materials is limited either by supply or their ability to read them. So they come to a scan/sub group and maybe discover a great new manga/anime series. It's theoretically a great match for the fan : they need help to get the access to the manga and the group who desires to spread their own love of that manga decides to provide the service to the community. However, some groups simply seem to want all of the love from the community without working for it and that simply makes more frustration for the fans than if the group didn't exist.

Which is really the basis of my whole point. Fan groups don't live in a vacuum of their own lives... they have people who look to them to provide their services. When they set up a group, the groups intended to provide this service for other people to enjoy a particular series and they happily do so - they set it up as a hobby. However, when they do this, they should understand the ramifications and responsibilites of their own actions.

I understand that subbing/translating *IS* a time/labor intensive task - but shouldn't the group have known this when they formed the group ? If a group translates one chapter  and then disappears for 2 months only to slap the "it'll be ready when it's ready" card to their fans, then it's seems to me that the complaints are justified. Simply put, these people built up an expectation of a level of commitment to the community and then turned their back on it and then are trying to make themselves look victimized by circumstance.

I mean, in most cases, all that's needed is a certain level of communcation. A simple message apologizing, progress report or even an excuse saying why the next chapter will be late would appease all but the most obnoxious of the fans. But some groups even lack this sort of sense.

Just because something starts off as a 'hobby' doesn't necessarily mean there should be a total lack of commitment. Some people rely on community service providers in everyday situations... it's not like it's unique to the manga/anime community. It could be anything from volunteering at a shelter to a intramural sports league to drawing a cartoon for the school paper - these are all hobbies that someone has decided to undertake on top of their obligations... and when there are other people involved who depend on your commitment to the hobby, then there should be at least some sense of responsibility to the people who are looking up to you to do the things you said you would at the beginning.

I mean, saying all this, I don't expect groups to be putting their entire lives into their projects in order to appease some crazy jerkoffs who demand things all the time... fans should appreciate what they're getting and support the effort reasonably. But at the same time, the groups should simply push it all on the whiners - after all, they're giving them the excuses to whine in some cases, in some cases even justified ones coming from fans who are just frustrated.  As fellow fans, groups simply need to understand the frustration that their fans go through when it happens.

Personally, I don't complain myself. I do get frustrated from time to time, but I try not to whine about it out of appreciation for the group and trying to be considerate. I'm just tired of some groups going missing and leaving their fans hanging and then getting all indignant when some fans confront them about it. "You don't like it ? Leave!" or "We're too slow ? Too bad" just seems far too common and it's detracts from the purpose of spreading the joy to the community in the first place.

Offline Cgoten

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2005, 08:35:29 PM »
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Hell, I'm mad at myself for taking so long on chapters that just came out in Japan this week. <_< Of course, I don't think it's reasonable to expect every group to translate things right as they come out, but like you said, it's also not reasonable for fans to wait 2 months for a single chapter of a series. Personally, I try to get everything released as quickly as reasonably possible, cause I wanna read the series too. =p If there's no motivation to read the series, then there's really no point in offering to translate it in the first place.

I guess this deviates from the original purpose of this thread, but, it's still worthy of saying. =)

Offline lum

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2005, 04:40:58 PM »
personally, i think u guys are doing great. u have caught up so much in ichigo 100%, as well as the quality of releases are as gd as they can get. i seriously don't see how you guys can release them much faster than what you're doing, as u've pretty much caught up to volume 14, which is the newest volume. also for all the other manga, they're pretty much up to date as well.
now i "feel" y anime is actually a pretty small community, not sure if i'm right, but they're scanlating so many series with frequent releases, i'm actually surprised they manage to do that. also, their releases are on HTML, which is the easiest for all those lazy ppl out there, so y complain? i mean, bandwith costs money ya know.
keep up the gd work  ;D

Offline theshonen

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2005, 09:12:58 PM »
Other than the fact you guys don't scan licensed manga (which I completly understand), I think you guys are great scanners. Don't be disappointed ^^.

Offline da MiGHTy pLUm!

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2005, 07:54:08 PM »
Seriously, if we're too slow for you, go elsewhere or start your own group and scanlate yourself.  I honestly would like to see one of the whiners step into my shoes for a bit.  Have a full-time job, a life where I have friends and am not infront of the computer 24/7, all while trying to colour pages for ichigo (which IS time consuming), and scanning and editing Mai-HiME and Gakuen Heaven.  Yes, I scan, edit, colour... just about everything but proof and translate.  And then don't tell me you're not tired or irritated of hearing "When's the next chapter of *insert title here* coming out?" when you're trying your hardest to do everything.  If I appear like a jackass in the channel, that is exactly why.  Things get done when they get done.  We do try our hardest to give you guys what you want.  But when we lose the joy in doing this for you and for ourselves... then we're just coming home to more work after a full day at the 9-5 job.  The result is that overworked and underappreciated feeling, which leads to half assed work.  Not something you, nor I, would be happy with.
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Offline arm_of_phong

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2005, 09:49:59 PM »
Exactly, da mighty plum hit the nail on the head. I scanlate manga myself, so I feel justified in agreeing w/ you on this point. I also edit and color, and it is ALOT of work.

Even if you're fast, a chapter can take anywhere from 2-4 hours to clean alone, depending on chapter length and quality of scans. The typesetting then takes around 2-3 hours as well, and THAT can only happen after the chapter is translated, proofed and revised into the final version. This usually takes anywhere from 3-4 days. (Our group is small so if my estimates seem lenthy...that's why) Of course, if there's alot of sfx, you'll also have to reconstruct some art. Tack on another hour or two. So for the editor/typesetter, there's around 10 hours of work on a single chapter, AND if you're the only who colors as well.....plus you work 30 hours a week, PLUS you have school or college....It really adds up.

When a scanlation group is formed, the members of said group are picking up a hobby that they take on at their own pace. When people really love something, they often like to share it with others. That's what scanlation is, sharing what you love w/ others. If people want to take advantage of that, fantastic. But they take advantage at our pace.

Offline kazuyasato

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Re: On Manga Scanlation
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 05:55:47 AM »
i've recently became a translator, and i agree that the manga fans are a bit too rushy when it comes to scantalations. We have to go through alot of tests and have to undergo several steps before having one chapter done up nicely. This takes alot of my time and I also have a private life by myself. I am only a 15 year old which have to prepare for my exams in september. I also have a job that takes up 8 hrs of my time per day, and also have several sports and I am playing in a street basketball team that we have alot of training three times per week and sometimes we have to go urgently for sudden training. I am also requesting to be in other scantalation groups. I am trying to get into Solaris-SVU and also trying to get into fansubbing groups like ANBU and A-One. So please people, please stop your nonsense in asking for fast translations, unless you want crappy translations done by Paint with blurry text!

 

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